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What we can't afford, Caleb, is to let you get away with your attacks!

by Jeremy Hooper

 Images 2005 06 CenteronhalstedRegarding a new $20 million, top of the line gay community center that recently opened in Chicago, Focus on the Family's Caleb Price has the following to say:

"...with this new $20 million gay community center in Chicago we see more evidence that, in fact, the homosexual community is one of the wealthiest, most privileged and powerfully influential groups in the country," ... "Yet they continue to demand special rights and recognition from society at large – all based on their self-identification with sexual behavioral preferences. This is truly astonishing – and sobering – to those who hold to a biblically orthodox view of God’s created intent for human sexuality."

Wait...because a community's ability to envision and finance a project somehow negates their right to claim discrimination?! Uhm, sorry Caleb, but NO!

The center was reportedly paid for by a mix of government, private and business funding. This is not surprising to us in the least, as we would never deny that our community has deep pockets and monied supporters. However, that doesn't change the fact that groups like Mr. Price's Focus on the Family are still out there fostering an environment that keeps gays, monied or not, threatened in very real and frightening ways. That's because while currency can buy lots of things, it cannot purchase familial acceptance, civil rights, or bias motivated ass-kicking insurance!

A true story: This coming weekend, this writer and his partner will be attending a wedding in the Berkshires. We will drive there from our pricey NYC apartment in our fairly pricey car, which we keep housed in a downright expensive Manhattan garage. On the way to said wedding, we are going to stop off and pick up either one or two expensive iPhones (the 8G, more costly models) from the AT&T store. After we arrive at the event, we will be staying at a swank resort that will set us back a fairly sizable chunk of change. While there, we may decide to pay extra and get some pampering and messages. Then, once the big night arrives, we will be decked out in new suits that we bought specifically for the occasion, and we'll also have to (gladly) fork over a wad of cash for the bride and groom's wedding gift.

We can afford it all. However, that doesn't change one thing: WE STILL CAN'T HAVE OUR OWN LEGALLY RECOGNIZED UNION!!!!!!! Our ability to live it up and treat ourselves doesn't negate the fact that we are denied EQUALITY (not special rights). We are fortunate in one area because we have worked hard, followed the right paths, benefited from a strong support system, and wisely handled our finances. However, we are denied in the other area because of WHO WE WERE CREATED TO BE! Our love is undeniable and our union is solid as a rock, nay, boulder! However, we are still denied our freedoms because of those who insist on casting stones, nay, boulders!

It is completely unfair, first off, to paint the gay community as all residing in a certain tax bracket. We are folks of all walks of life not bound by any common monetary thread. But it's also ridiculous to say to those with a little more coin, authority, or access that their complaints regarding hate crimes, marriage discrimination, employment bias, etc., fall on deaf ears because of their bank statements, powerful friends, or authoritative positions. Especially when those attacks come from Focus on the Family, a group that surely knows a thing or two about both lucre...

FOF Headquarters

...and powerful allies:

Picture 7-56
FOF's James & Shirley Dobson with Dubya

Chicago Welcomes Gays with $20 Million Center [FOF CitizenLink]

space gay-comment gay-G-A-Y-post gay-email gay-writer-jeremy-hooper

Your thoughts

Thanks Jeremy for your story! Here's ours.

We live in a ultra-hip LA neighborhood in a cute little place that is way over-priced. We drive a couple of relatively pricey new cars. We have a kid, who at 8 is on three different teams (basketball, baseball, football)...not cheap. Heck, our grocery budget alone is stupid! We've got some pretty cool threads that we like to sport. We've got some big-boy toys (although not the iPhone...yet...LOL) that are cool. This summer we will travel up the West Coast and to the East Coast. Traveling isn't all that cheap. Our combined income puts us well over the median household income in the State of California (not to mention the good ole USA). Like you and yours though, we still can't have our own legally recognized union! Heck, even our 8 year old who is pretty sheltered and doesn't really know much...ok anything...about the whole gay thing, knows who his parents are. Just this past Father's Day, he brought home a picture frame he made that was to "the world's greatest parents!" But Dobson, well, he's another story...

By the way, do a little bit of research on the home that Jim and Shirley Dobson live in. Or just how much money he's worth. He went to college with my grandfather and so we've had a family connection my entire life. Let's just say, "focusing on the family" has been incredibly lucrative for he and his family!


Posted by: Jonathan | Jun 26, 2007 3:45:53 PM

Oh, the poor xtians are so put upon, what with their millions of dollars raised off the back of us uberpowerful queers. I wonder how many people could have been helped with all the $$ spent on FOF's campus, not to mention all those mega-"churches". Give up that salary and give it to the poor, then maybe you can claim you are doing the Lord's work. Hyprocrites!

Posted by: MBSF | Jun 26, 2007 3:50:09 PM

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! These anti-gay organizations reek with more money than any GLBT organization.

I wonder how many poor could benefit by the money that FOF spent not only on their building but the money they use to create an abusive atmosphere for all GLBT people?

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Posted by: Ken | Jun 26, 2007 4:02:37 PM

Hmmnn, I wonder what just one of those stadiums, er, um, megachurches costs.

Posted by: ptboat | Jun 26, 2007 5:28:51 PM

Yes, it certainly does. I go to a church which is housed in a multi-million-dollar building (and millions of dollars, in Kansas, can buy quite a lot). Yet I still wonder . . . couldn't we do all of this without the building and the sound system? Couldn't we have built and sustained our own homeless rehabilitation center for less than the cost of this building.

Then I remember that beauty, in and of itself, can be a great thing (not that my church is beautiful; it's quite Puritanical in its downplayed utilitarianism). My point being that, gay or straight, Christian, Buddhist, or Muslim, communities deserve (well, maybe not deserve, but benefit from) beautiful places in which to meet. More importantly, people of any race, belief system, or orientation deserve (definitely deserve) community, and this center will help make that possible.

I have to say, I do think that the admittedly deep pockets of the queer community could probably stand to empty a little into the coffers of those who need help, but at least our lack of generosity doesn't stand in direct contrast to the demands of a book we use to condemn other people. As Ken said, black much, Mr. Kettle?

Posted by: Jamie | Jun 26, 2007 6:06:32 PM

I love it when bigots try to say they have some corner on “God’s created intent for human sexuality.” If they were honest, these unthinking individuals would have to agree that God’s intent was procreation. Which means that every time these folks engage in sexual activities, they must be doing so for the sole purpose of procreation. Which means no devices, substances, alternative body parts, or anything else that could even maybe possibly interfere with that result.

But you know what? I’m not going to ask them what they do, or don’t do, in bed. Why not? Maybe because – oh, I don’t know – it’s none of my business?

And I’m delighted – thrilled! – to say that reading Jeremy’s weekend plan description, seeing that he and his partner were headed for Massachusetts, until I got to the end I didn’t know whether the wedding would have a bride and a groom or maybe one of each.


Posted by: robin reardon | Jun 26, 2007 6:10:12 PM

I fought to a draw when our Atty General, Jon Bruning, made a statement that if gay unions were approved here, "the next thing you know, they'd want to marry chairs." I called him on it, and he simply said, "I'm sorry if my inarticulate legal argument was of offense." This putz is eyeing a federal political role, and his former boss made it to Dubya's cabinet (he is chief farmer) and he hired the chick that screwed up the HHS. So it's not outta the realm...
You can add him to your circle of unfunny clowns masquerading as servants staunchly supporting the public good.

Posted by: Boston Crone | Jun 26, 2007 7:38:34 PM

You should see the Catholic Church down the road from me.

Posted by: Franc | Jun 26, 2007 10:37:47 PM

I have to say, I'm a non-believer. But I grew up in Amish country and I must say, as far as religious practice goes, they (along with the mennonites and quakers and such) are living and practicing what they preach. No hypocracy, no ostentatious, no shoving their beliefs down other people's throats. I have a lot of respect for them (and absolutely none for those hypocritical blow hards who have absolutely no true understanding of what it means to be a christian). Message to FOF, TVC etc., Read your bible before you thump it...and not just the convenient parts.

Posted by: Jessica | Jun 27, 2007 10:32:05 AM

This topic of homosexuality rehashes the same points which have been said many times before. I'm not a Christian & I'm not religious. But I believe that even if sexual orientation or proclivity doesn't change, it's best to change them to either missionary sex or no sex. I'm also against men & their wives engaging in sodomy & oral sex.

I believe in abolishing sex change surgeries, because it's synonymous to surgeons amputating healthy arms & limbs of those who have apotemnophilia. Also if you care about animals, then you must support abolishing sex change surgeries-because these abominations were initially done on animals.

I know that people will rehash the gene. Even if it's inborn, changing sexual activities of H&L to either missionary sex or celibacy is what's best for them, even if orientation doesn't change. I don't regard homo&lesbian activities as a virtue. You'll rehash that it's intolerant bigotry, but it's not bigoted to be against H&L activities which are medically harmful, just as it's not bigoted to be against tobacco use.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 6, 2007 11:59:35 AM

Please say that you are parodying someone, "missionaryway." Because even If unintentional, you sure gave us a nice laugh!

Posted by: G-A-Y | Aug 6, 2007 12:03:04 PM

No, I'm not parodying any1. Before contintuing let me say that I'm pro-choice on abortion only from the standpoint that if a baby will be born w/o arms & legs, that I would rather it be aborted. I realize that this topic ends up rehashing the same points, but sexual orientation is a moot point. It's about changing behavior even if orientation doesn't change. But there are 2 things I would like to hear H&L say for a change-because I've heard only a few homosexuals say that they believe these 2 things.

1. I would like to hear from homomen & lesbians who regard sex change surgeries as abominations which must be abolished. I write this because as you're aware, transexuals have allied themselves with homosexual groups such as PFLAG. Transexuality is worse than homosexuality & I have in the past tried to enact legislation to abolish sex change surgeries. I would like to hear from H&L who think transexuality is bad & who believe in abolishing sex change surgeries.

2. On the topic of homosexuality, I would like to hear from H&L who say that while they're adults who'll engage in same sex activities with fully knowing & willful adults, that they are against pushing the view that H&L behaviors are OK in the workplace. Forcing some1 who regards H&L behaviors as bad to listen to the view that H&L activities as OK, while not allowing opposing views is harassment. Either homosexuality should not be discussed in the workplace or if it is discussed, then the views of those who oppose H&L activities must also be given.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 6, 2007 6:04:19 PM

I'm only posting again, because as you may know, Focus on the Family is sending 2 people to participate in a AIDS cure bike ride & has given money. Now while you are justified in wondering what Focus on the Family’s motives are, the fact remains that they are helping AIDS victims & help is help. Dr. Dobson has said that babies sometimes get this disease, who didn’t engage in any risky behaviors. In the case of homosexual AIDS victims, Dr. Dobson has said that if some1 is going to have sex with many & not use condoms & gets VD or AIDS, then that’s the risk involved.

But my ? here is that you’ve heard tennis player Martina Navratilova speak on behalf of PETA in slamming experiments to make gay sheep straight on the grounds it’s cruelty to animals. Yet Martina Navratilova has given money to AIDS & breast cancer research, which uses animals in experiments. If Martina Navratilova truly cares about animals then she must stop funding AIDS research. Martina Navratilova only slams animal experiments when it opposes her on the grounds it’s cruelty to animals, but she does not slam AIDS research on animals as animal cruelty. Also I've not heard Martina Navratilova decry sex change surgeries, because these maimings were experimented on animals. Why does the press give serious coverage to what Martina Navratilova says, because her actions prove that she really doesn't care about animals.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 10, 2007 7:43:10 AM

This will be the last time that I'll post here, because there is 1 thing I didn't do. I will give credit to Martina Navratilova for the work she has done to protect rhinos & endangered species. She has done things to help animals. However, she has as noted not done enough. If you truly care about animal welfare as I do, then you must support abolishing sex change surgeries-maimings, which as I noted was 1st done on animals. She must also stop giving money to help AIDS & cancer victims, because you know about the monkeys & mice injected with AIDS & cancer.

Finally, what I'll write here is something that I truly believe. You know about Palestinian suicide bombers or you know what groups like Operation Rescue have done, deeds which have sometimes resulted in killings. If Operation Rescue targetted instead Drs. who perform sex change maimings, then I give them full moral support. If Arab suicide bombers rather than killing Jews, want to put on explosives & be suicide bombers against Dr. & psychologists who perform sex change maimings, then they have my moral support. I don't want Arab suicide bombers to kill Jews. I'll give them moral support as noted if they make themselves suicide bombers to kill Drs. who perform sex changes.

As you see, I want to abolish sex change maimings-they are evil abominations. A boy can't be a girl & a girl can't be a boy. I am also against making white people black or black people white if they have Racial Identity Disorder. I want to use legal means to abolish sex change maimings. But if people are willing to use illegal means, become suicide bombers against Drs. & psychologists who perform these abominations called sex change maimings, then they have my full moral support.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 25, 2007 11:46:30 AM

After thinking about it, I realize that I do have final comments to make. I won't post here again, because anything I say after this won't offer anything new.

As you know, I mentioned that I'm not religious. I used to have a neutral view of homosexuality, but after years of thinking about it, I've come against homo&lesbian activities. Here are the reasons I came to my thinking.

Rather than neutrally discussing homosexuality, homosexual groups such as PFLAG are dishonest. Now there may be a gene to engage in H&L activities. But just because there's a gene doesn't make the behavior good.

As far as can homosexual rape esp. in youth cause a young boy to engage in homosexual activities in adulthood. While most victims of homosexual rape in youth don't engage in homosexual activities in adulthood, the likelihood is increased because such an event is traumatic & can impact the mind in different ways, incl. sexually. I've seen interviews of homosexuals who believe that being a victim of homosexual rape in youth influenced their sexuality. If they had not been raped in their youths, would they have engaged in homosexual activities in adulthood? Now while most homosexual adults weren't homosexually raped in their youths, what I'm saying is that to say that homosexual rape doesn't impact some people's sexuality is not understandable & it's not honest. There are many different reasons why people engage in sexual activities, both social & biological.

You know I had mentioned that discussing homosexuality in a positive way during work & school hours is sexual harassment if the other person doesn't want to hear it. In 2002, Kodak fired an employee after that employee sent an e-mail politely requesting that Kodak not send him any e-mails regarding homosexuality, because he found those sexual behaviors to be disgusting.

Now if homosexuals want to discuss homosexuality, they can do it outside work hours. Listening to homosexuality during work is not pertinent to making films & cameras & it's not the place to discuss it. Now if some1 sees nothing wrong with homo&lesbian activities, they won't care if the message homo&lesbian activities are OK are said during work hours. But if you do see something wrong with H&L activities, then you should have the right to say that those sexual activities are bad, if the other side begins the discussion. Now Kodak will use the euphemism of diversity, but it's forcing people to listen to the view that certain behaviors are OK, w/o opposing views. Once some1 says that they don't want to hear about homosexuality during work hours, then the discussion must end-any continuance is sexual harassment. Yes, homosexual activities between fully knowing & willful adults is legal, but keep their sex lives in the bedroom & keep the discussions outside work hrs.

Also a ? I have heard is why do "homophobes" post on websites such as Dr. Throckmorton's, Box Turtle Bulletin & this 1. Because as you're aware, these discussions rehash the same thing. Most of the things posted are preaching to the choir. We post because we want to say something new that you usu. won't hear. Now I agree that the religious discussions get dull. But you don't have to be religious to be against H&L activities.

Finally, let me end this by raising something most people won't seriously consider-what if scientists did discover the 100% cures for homosexuality, GID & oral sex? I have no doubt that if they discovered the pill or shot to help some1 quit gay sex, then many gays would take this medicine to go straight. It would require the medical & psychological community to think about things that weren't seriously thought of before, as discoveries can change the discussion. People who suffer from GID would take the shot to go straight. We would hear about the harms of sex change maimings such as the harms done by hormone shots which currently only get minor coverage. This is my last post, because anything else I write will be reruns. Thank you for allowing my posts on your website & have a nice day.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 27, 2007 10:37:08 AM

Missionaryway: You seem to post this same stuff all over the Internet (sometimes using the identities like criticofpflag). And you seem to have a particular interest in Caleb Price. Interesting.

Posted by: G-A-Y | Aug 27, 2007 1:58:40 PM

OK, you forced me to reply & hopefully this 1 will be my last post here. Thank you for your thoughts. I also want to thank the moderator again for allowing my posts to be put on your website, because I know you pick & choose what gets posted. Since the moderator has read my posts on other websites, my writings are not new to you. But others who post here may not know this, as they may not have visited other sites.

I've never met Caleb Price, nor have I met any1 from Focus on the Family. I am pro-choice on abortion & I'm against U.S. support for Israel. FOTF is pro-Israel & pro-life. I believe that the U.S. should be neutral on Arab-Israeli conflict & I believe the U.S. intervened in Iraq, primarily to help Israel's interests.

To tell you more about me, my parents came from a nation which has been divided because of religious conflicts & where so many have been killed & continue to be killed in the name of religion. I once wanted to be a history teacher & I know alot about the 2 World Wars, Korean War, the Vietnam War & Nazi Germany history. I've been to many places in the U.S. & overseas.

The 2 topics where I've gotten the most # of replies-often hostile are my posts about Nazi Germany & this 1. I believe that sometimes, history revisionists are right. I've written that the Soviet Commissars executed by the Nazis were evil men.

The Soviet Commissars were Stalin's henchmen-they killed millions in the name of Stalin's Communism such as the Ukrainian Famine. The Soviet Commissars raped 10 year old girls, they cut off breasts & genitals in the GULag & did other evil things. I've generated controversy when I've written that in some cases, the Nazis did kill bad people-Stalin's Commissars (both men & women guards ran the Soviet GULag). The point is that the Soviet Commissars were evil & the Commissar Order was evil men (Nazis) killing other evil people (Stalin's Commissars).

Finally, as you can see, I'm a true believer. I took the time to think of what I'm going to write. I hope you realize that when people like I post on your website, we take the trouble to think about it & we don't write for our benefit, we write it for society's benefit.

Posted by: missionaryway | Aug 28, 2007 8:30:41 AM

There's no need for such a lengthy response. It's just that the IP address and search terms that led you to this post gave reason to believe that you were perhaps Caleb Price himself. If you're not, you're not.

Posted by: G-A-Y | Aug 28, 2007 8:33:46 AM

Merry Christmas to all of you:

I may be a bigot, but I'm a nice bigot. Anyhow, the reason I'm posting to you today is because of something I wrote on Catholicism.about.com regarding abortion. I wrote under my various ID (Whyimprochoice) that if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would engage in homo&lesbian activities or would suffer from Gender Dysphoria (GID), that I would abort it. I've copied & pasted what I wrote, a reply I got from some1 named Gatoman & the answer I gave. The post #s are 4, 5 & 6 Read below & as noted my ID is whyimprochoice:

4. Dear Mr. Richert:

I’m pro-choice on abortion. I know what I’m going to write will sound offensive to some, but if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would engage in homo&lesbian sexual activities or would have Gender Dysphoria (GID), then I would abort it. Also if an unborn baby would be born w/o arms & legs, I would abort it.

I see something wrong with men having sex with men & women having sex with women. I also see something wrong with sex change maimings-a boy can not become a girl & viceversa. It’s for those 5 reasons where I would abort a baby.

Comment by whyimprochoice — December 19, 2007 @ 11:37 am

5. whyimprochoice, you are a bigot. It is wrong to destroy any life, espically the unborn. What you are doing is supporting a foul and disgusting crime based on hate and eugenics. You have no right to determine wither or not to allow a child to live based on their sexual orientation or physyical staus.

I’ve seen more disabled people live full lives even without arms or legs or even both. Hopmosexuals are also people too, and should be given every respect and diginity.

The problem of today is that people no longer recongize their brothers or sisters. Worse is the ignorance of people who no longer see the sacredness of life.

Comment by Gatomon41 — December 19, 2007 @ 8:14 pm

6. Gatoman41, replies such as yours are something that I expect. I have no doubt that handicapped people are capable of doing great things. Stevie Wonder’s blind-incidentally I like music when it comes out the 1st time. FDR who was handicapped was a great president. I know disabled people, incl. the fact that I have a cousin who is blind.

But with all that said, if I were going to be born blind or handicapped-w/o arms & legs, I would rather be aborted. If I knew that an unborn child were going to be born blind, yes I would abort it.

As far as homos&lesbians, this is nothing against them personally, but as noted, I see something wrong with men having sex with men & women having sex with women. I also see something wrong with sex change maimings & they must abolish them.

They must find cures for homosexuality & Gender Dysphoria (GID). It’s either straight missionary activity between man & woman or celibacy. As long as they have not found a cure for homosexuality & GID, if it could be predicted that a baby will engage in H&L activities or will have GID, I believe in aborting it. Finally, I’m not Catholic. Catholicism does say that same sex activities & GID are both abominations.

Comment by whyimprochoice — December 20, 2007 @ 10:41 am

Posted by: missionaryway | Dec 20, 2007 10:52:44 AM

Merry Christmas:

Thanks again for posting my message. Box Turtle Bulletin & Dr. Throckmorton stopped posting my messages & they delete them-they're rude. David Roberts, Mike Airhart (Airfart) & Jim Burroway of Box Turtle Bulletin are evil. @least you're nice, though your sex lives are kinky. Anyhow, here is more of my dialogue on Catholicism.about.com. You can again read what Gatomon41 wrote & my reply WhyImprochoice below. Read below the 2 replies I got from Gatomon41 & what I posted to Gatomon41 with my Identity WhyImprochoice. Merry Christmas & enjoy reading:

whyimprochoice, you have no right to say who lives or who dies. All life is sacred, and to destory life based on disabilties is evil.

You just admited that disabled people can and have lived full lives! You have no reason to deny life to someone who is disabled, espiecally since they have a chance to live a full life.

Also, the Unborn are not “its”. They’re he, she, brother, sister, in a word: Human. Perhaps if you saw the humanity in all people, then you realize what an evil you expouse.

On Church Teaching:
Also, while Homosexuailty (homosexual actions) are sinful, homosexauilty (beining of homosexual orientation) IS NOT an abomination. A person can’t decide their sexual orientation. Also, we are to called to love everyone and recongize their human dignity, including homosexuals. They too are our brothers and sisters.

Also, the Church considers Abortion and eugenics as grave evils. Abortion and eugenics are the true abominations.

Comment by Gatomon41 — December 20, 2007 @ 11:49 pm

Sorry, grammar edit:
On Church Teaching:
Also, while Homosexuailty (homosexual actions) are sinful, homosexuals(beining of homosexual orientation) IS NOT an abomination. A person can’t decide their sexual orientation. Also, we are to called to love everyone and recongize their human dignity, including homosexuals. They too are our brothers and sisters.

Comment by Gatomon41 — December 20, 2007 @ 11:51 pm

Below is my reply to Gatomon41 & my ID is whyimprochoice

Merry Christmas Gatomon41. Sexual orientation that you discuss is a moot point. It’s either straight missionary activity or no sexual activity. I have nothing against homosexuals & lesbians, but I see something wrong with their sexual behaviors, whatever the causes.

I know that what I wrote is offensive to some. I comprehend Mr. Richert’s point that sometimes productive people such as math geniuses will be aborted. If they had a law which forbade abortions when the unborn baby is a math or science genius & permits abortions when the unborn baby will have GID or homosexuality, I would favor it.

I understand that my position-mandating the abortion of unborn babies who are homo&lesbian or will have GID is offensive to pro-lifers, while forbidding abortion when the unborn baby will be a math or science genius will not be sufficient to pro-lifers. But I doubt that such law would pass, which is why I’m pro-choice.

I’m against Catholic druggists offering abortion & the American Medical Association is an evil group. Christian Drs. should not perform abortions. But let me raise something else. What if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would be a serial killer such as Richard Ramirez or Charles Ng-2 men on death row in California for raping & killing women? Would you abort a baby then if it could be predicted that it would be a serial killer in the future? When the late talk hos Morton Downey Jr. was asked this in 1989 (he’s a Catholic who says he is pro-life), Morton DOwney Jr. answered yes. Aborting unborn babies who will be homos&lesbians, aborting unborn babies who will have Gender Dysphoria (GID), along with aborting unborn babies who will be disabled & aborting unborn babies who will be serial killers of the future are in my view justified abortions.

I am not a Christian. Since you mention death & as I guess mercy killing comes into this, what about mercy killings in war. On the History Channel, they once interviewed an American Marine who saw Japanese women & children commit suicide by jumping off of cliffs in Okinawa-this also happened in Saipan. When this Marine saw the Japanese women & children in Okinawa jumping off of cliffs about to hit the rocks below, he shot & killed them before they hit the rocks. People have told me that the Marine should not have shot them & simply let them hit the rocks. But if the women & kids had hit the rocks, they may not have died immediately. They may have been in pain for a while before dying. The women & kids were going to die anyhow & what the Marine did was mercifully end it.

Posted by: missionaryway | Dec 21, 2007 10:49:30 AM

MissionaryWay: We don't ban anyone based on what they say. however, I suspect the reason why Jim Burroway and others have banned comments like the above is less because of the content, and more because of the nature of the comment. Why must you repurpose a dialogue that you've had on another forum?! We ask that from this point forward, you please keep your thoughts on here original.

Posted by: G-A-Y | Dec 21, 2007 11:24:51 AM

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