'Pray away the gay' vs 'Prayer and sexuality are separate concepts': You decide who's glib
“We concur with the American Psychological Association’s position that homosexuality is likely developmental in nature and caused by a ‘complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors,’ ” according to the Love Won Out Web site. “We would also agree with the American Psychiatric Association when it states ‘some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime.’”
Love Won Out says it does not attempt to “fix” gays and lesbians, a charge heard often from its critics in the APA.
“Such glib characterizations ignore the complex series of factors that can lead to same-sex attractions,” according to the Web site. “They also mischaracterize our mission. We exist to help men and women dissatisfied with living homosexually understand that same-sex attractions can be overcome. It is not easy, but it is possible, as evidenced by the thousands of men and women who have walked this difficult road successfully.”
Hmm..so the folks at Love Won Out think it's a "glib characterization" to classify their attempts as a "fix," yet they have absolutely no problem passing off their "gays can change" rhetoric as inconvertibly true?! Seriously -- in what sort of a bizarro world does this movement operate?! They espouse a doctrine that is supported only by a small stable of (typically faith-based) proponents, and yet THEY are the ones being forthright in their characterizations? We don't think so!
The basic definition of the word "glib" is easy, fluent speech or writing that is ultimately insincere or shallow. Well, what we have with the organized "ex-gay" crew is a movement that puts their own ideas above those of the gay, medical, and scientific communities (communities that would all seem to have more credence in discussing sexual orientation than they who have an admitted faith-based detestation of homosexuality). Their entire socio-politico-religo faction is based in convenient rhetoric, not reasoned considerations of all sides! Folks are absolutely free to buy into their ideas and shape their lives around them if that's what tickles their pickles. However, they who've been constructing glib houses for the past few decades really shouldn't throw stones at those who prefer to live in a world where one can come into their true, sincere selves without the assistance of therapy, conventions, videos, or other costly means of "molding" sexuality.
Psychiatrists: Let’s Talk about Homosexuality [CitizenLink]
They're conceding that there may be a biological cause for homosexuality. These guys are big time Christians, so they must believe that God is behind these biological causes. So why do they think it is acceptable to change something that God ordained? If it is acceptable to change someone's God made sexual orientation, isn't it also acceptable for our Trans brothers and sisters to change their God given gender? As Mr. Rogers would say, "Can you say hypocrites?"
Posted by: Mike in the Tundra | Apr 21, 2008 12:43:11 PM
That's the problem with all faith-based belief or "reasoning" (if you can call it that).
These people don't use data, reason and empiricism to get at the truth... they use an absolute belief in the writings of bronze and iron-age tribesmen who spent most of their lives slaughtering each other (old testament) or attempting to formulate a system that would foster the longevity of their social and moral constructs under Roman rule (the new testament).
Not that there aren't good moral lessons to be learned by reading Jesus' supposed words (most are good). The rest is obviously a bunch of self-contradictory tribal barbarism intended to justify the heinous acts of genocide and violence these people committed.
Only when mankind frees itself from the idea that certain books are inerrant will we be able to talk intelligently about matters of ethics, morals and the issues they touch on: sexuality. Discussing these issues with people that believe god told the Israelites that its okay to strike your slaves so long as they don't die that same day is not going to be productive.
Posted by: Rick | Apr 21, 2008 1:09:52 PM
"gilb," in this case, means "doesn't offer us the opportunity we rely on to put a positive and vague spin on things." If you think someone's nature is something that needs to be "overcome," then you're necessarily also saying that this nature *should* be overcome, and therefore that there is something wrong with people that bare this nature.
Maybe fix is just too blunt of a word? How about "improve," "make better," or "correct?" Love Won Out is trying to correct gay people. Oh, I can't believe I said that. How glib of me! This must be how Matt Lauer felt afterhis run in with Tom.
Posted by: zortnac | Apr 21, 2008 1:13:50 PM
". . . as evidenced by the thousands of men and women who have walked this difficult road successfully.”
What they didn't say was that these "thousands" have sat through their hours of indoctrination and brainwashing SUCCESSFULLY, only to come out the other end being less happy, more stigmatized and still gay.
Even in the "study" where they cherry-picked 200 "successful" self-committed detainees, they found that less than 3% of them actually actually ended up ex-gay (something-other-than-gay). Now, that's something they can be proud of.
Posted by: Dick Mills | Apr 21, 2008 2:26:01 PM
I don't necessarily agree with these programs, but I can tell you that people can overcome homosexuality. Why do I say this? Because I did. I had many people who were gay or lesbian telling me that I should just give in to it, but I never personally felt right about it, I suppose you could call me brain washed, but I wasn't. This was my own personal choice because I really did feel enslaved by something that I supposedly had no choice over (according to the LGBT community).
I do not mean to be rude, I have many good friends who are gay and I love who they are as a person, although I may not agree with their actions, that is irrelevant as far as I can see; a person's sexuality does not make someone who they are. Anyway, I do however, no many very rude and obnoxious people who are gay or lesbian, more so than many straight people, primarily because they feel the need to do this to draw attention and get people to "see the light".
I understand there was so much oppression for so long, but many of you are extremely hypocritical; calling those who change from a lesbian or gay lifestyle scarred for life, some might be, but I am not. It is a gross generalization that is just as rude as the claims you put on these Christian organizations. You plead for tolerance, but here is the thing, some, not all of the LGBT community is very intolerant and rude, and it is prolly the same minority that is rude in the Christian community to gays.
We will most likely always disagree on these things, because I will always believe that living those kinds of lifestyles are wrong, however, that does not mean I will be rude about it. Most people don't even know I believe such lifestyles are wrong because unlike you and some fringe Christians I don't walk around with a bull horn.
I usually only speak my piece was asked of my opinions on it personally, but when I read so much animosity against Christians and then hear preaching about love, it is very inferiorating; ir reeks of hypocrisy. But so-be-it, call me names for disagreeing or call me intolerant, but I am a very loving, kind, and tolerant person. Appearantly, to some people, tolerance means never disagreeing. :)
Love Always ~Amy
Posted by: lyrafowlpotter | Nov 2, 2009 1:12:22 PMcomments powered by Disqus