Video: Behar: When it comes to Whoopi, gays Sherri the Joy
We're a little surprised with Behar:
It's astounding that anyone, especially a progressive from New York City's media world, would still have such an uninformed opinion about gay relationships as a whole. Regardless of one's personal views on monogamy, it's downright weird to hear gay couples put in this "other" category that is monolithically one thing. Especially in a world where one can't shake a Tiger without hitting ten straight Jon & Kates!
And then it's Hasselbeck who steps in and warms about making such a blanket assertion? Oh my Cindy McCain, what's going with with this conservatives out-reasoning liberals in terms of gay commitments?! January, man: The cold makes things all nutty.
**NOTE: Joy set this all up by citing a recent appearance that Dan Savage made on her show. But the truth is that on said appearance, Dan said nothing about gays and monogamy -- he simply expressed his own personal view that monogamy, in general, is a choice rather than an instinct. And he extends his view to everyone -- L,G,B,T, or S! So Joy's choice to instigate this "debate" is really based on nothing other than an unfortunate stereotype. (Read: Behar/Savage transcript)
**NOTE2: Joy is a longtime LGBT advocate, and these comments (which she qualified as being just her own understanding) don't at all change that. They simply highlight our continued need to bust down old stereotypes which paint "gay" as one certain thing. She seemed more than open to the possibility that she was off, and said that she sought corrections -- so this is an opportunity to inform, not chastise. To push back with a different view.
**NOTE3: In full disclosure: Yes, I say all this as a married gay man who highly values monogamy in my own relationship. My personal experience surely shapes my reaction to this. Everyone has their own personal views and situations -- and that is grand! All should be respected.
She made a vast generalization for sure. But I can't say it isn't true to some extent. I know many gay couples, even couples who have been together a long time and consider themselves married yet can have open relationships or sleep around or whatever. I'm not sure how they are able to have that sort of relationship and I don't judge but I do think at least among gay men its probably more prevalent then amongst heterosexual couples. It could also be that maybe gay couples are just more open about it and that in fact many straight couples have open relationships too, but since its taboo they don't speak about it.
Posted by: Ron | Jan 26, 2010 6:40:00 PM
Ron: It wouldn't surprise me at all if levels were higher among gay men (especially of older generations). It's a reasonable assumption based on the fact that none of us have grown up in a world where gay monogamy has been encouraged. In fact, it's been the opposite.
But yea, it's the sweeping generalization that got me.
Posted by: G-A-Y | Jan 26, 2010 6:47:02 PM
Well, here in today's PROP8 trial, we have Blankenhorn, the 'expert on marriage and family' being examined by Cooper: He's got it all figured out.. It's CANADA's fault.
...NOW we will have polygamy!
"B: Canada struck the term ‘natural parent’ from law to the term ‘legal parent’ — agrowing trend toward a society where child won’t be raised by her natural parent.
Increasing likelihood of child raised in a family form other than with her two natural parents. Could be a possibility of more public willingness to consider family forms such as polygamy
C: Basis of your concern about that?
B: Not in the interests of women and society, we have some history with this. The concept that marriage involves only two people is one of its weakest rule. Scholars and journals are considering polygamy and polyandry, as this part of it comes under attack.
C: Why does redefinition of marriage as adult centered lead to accptance of polygamy.
B: Because man/woman customary basis reinforces the tradition of TWO. With once pillar gone, the other becomes less defensible."
HOOT! Can't wait till BOIES gets a hold of this one.... soon.
Posted by: LOrion | Jan 26, 2010 6:59:56 PM
Oh my sweet credenza. Are they actually going forward with the anti prop 8 trial? The strategic implications alone are mind boggling.
You guys should have excerpts every day. I'm totally interested. But are those Blankenhorn's actuall words? The man can't even speak grammatically. If only the court would rule on sentence structure, we'd be in like Flint.
Posted by: Wilberforce | Jan 26, 2010 7:37:51 PM
I'm that "older generation" who grew up being told that being gay was worse than cancer. Monogamy wasn't encouraged. . .Marriage most certainly wasn't an option. . .not even a glimmer of a snowflake option.
Today, I am with my partner 23 years later. . .23 years of rocky roads and ups/downs that I wouldn't trade for the moon. . .a partnership that has lasted longer than any other in either of our families. . .yet, still our "partnership" isn't seen on the same level as my sisters previous 4 marriages.
I hope that Ron can get some of that.
We look toward the future with knowledge of the past, and understand how discrimination and ignorance from others have influenced our lives.
We move forward. . .never in my lifetime would I have thought marriage was even an option, and yet today, I'm that old guy fighting for it. . I'm fighting for you, and for the next generation.
I only hope this isn't a conversation someone is still having after I'm dead.
Posted by: Jon | Jan 27, 2010 2:50:45 AM
I get what you're saying Jon, and though I may not be of the "older generation" I have been partnered for over 10 years now. My point I guess was that I have many couple friends who we come to find out that even though they are married and have been together for many years they have an open relationship.
We have friends that are having a marriage ceremony this spring and they've been together 11 years. Yet one of them has a profile on a hookup website and the partner knows about it and is accepting of it. Are they in the minority of gay couples in long term relationships/marriage? I don't know. I guess I just don't get how you can take a vow and fight for marriage rights and yet be completely fine with your other half boinking whoever they feel like.
Posted by: Ron | Jan 27, 2010 4:26:20 PM
What Dan Savage said is definitely true. As gay men, who among us can deny that as a whole, a phenomenally higher number of gay men contract STDs than hets. As much as we'd like to think it, not too many hets engage in rimming. A good example are even the self-labelled "Conservative" gay men like Andrew Sullivan. He was caught in an HIV+ anonymous barebacking scandal WHILE he was denouncing promicuity and hedonism among gay men.
Posted by: Keith | Jan 27, 2010 5:15:44 PMcomments powered by Disqus