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11/15/2007
Video: Dude wants to be Tilex for perceived 'gay mold' problem
Some might call this dude a "self-hater." Some might see him as fostering anti-gay arguments rather than combatting them. Others will think he makes some very good and very underrepresented points. Have a look and make up your own mind (language NSFW):
As for us, we think he's speaking his mind on a topic that is certainly worthy of discussion. Now, we wouldn't present it in such an aggressive fashion, as it could be seen as hostility towards those who embrace or whose lives do more readily fit into the stereotypical mold that this guy is challenging. And we wouldn't present shows like "Queer as Folk" as wholly counterproductive, even if we didn't agree with certain elements. We don't think he really IS hostile towards "the gay mold" or to every gay representation in the media, but rather is just frustrated at the very real exploitation that is still occurring at the hands of outdated and unfair stereotypes. So if we're right about that, we do think that this dude needs to be a little more careful when challenging the current portrayals and seeking a more diverse display of LGBT lives, as the acrimony towards the current state of gay affairs could easily come across as hypocritical and counterproductive. Even if certain depictions don't represent you, they do realistically represent others. And you can embolden your own arguments without demeaning (be it deliberate or inadvertent) others.
That being said, however -- We do think we are still light years away from a media that presents the LGBT people for the well-rounded community that they are. And we do think that even our most well-intentioned outlets do often ignore the less flashy or less "gay-identified" aspects. Here at G-A-Y, we have always come at gay issues from a human perspective rather than a gay-specific one, as (a) we don't see LGBT as letters that place a person on any one specific playing field, and (b) we don't think there is truly one gay culture or gay sensibility. Sure there are artisans and elements that have, for whatever reason, fallen into favor more readily with members of our community (as with any community); but for the most part, we only use these labels as designators for the communities of diverse humans that are lumped together and demeaned by their opposition of a socio-politco-religo level. Because no matter where we stand in terms of sensibility, we LGBT people are all united by the enmity that is still shown towards our lives and loves. And we see this discrimination is far more of a queer unifier than any specific cultural components.
So to make a long story short (too late): We appreciate this man for saying his piece. Do we think some anti-gay people could use his arguments against the gay community? Yes we do. And do we see how and why some might consider him to be subconsciously self-hating? Sure. But we think there is an underlying message here that could lead to some very healthy discussion, even if we think this particular YouTuber has made some unfair arguments in his provocation of such a dialogue.
**Gays Exploiting Gays** [caution language] [YouTube]
Your thoughts
I certainly can't agree 100% with you.
I listened to him, and at least I didn't hear, "Blah, blah,blah, blah." What I did hear was, "I'm "straight-acting" and thus I'm better than those who might be just slightly effeminate or worse - very effeminate." Could that be the stereotypes that he is speaking of? Could his better than you attitude be the real reason he's not invited to parties? Could these deep, deep discussions he has with his buddies be excuses for not going out and becoming meaningfully involved in activities that might actually help the LGBT citizens of the world?
Posted by: Mike in the Tndra | Nov 15, 2007 12:05:28 PM
Mike: I'm not even sure how you WOULD agree 100%. It doesn't seem to be the type of thing that lends itself to one sort of agreement or disagreement, but rather a discussion.
But as for his attitude: Yes, I too heard words that could come across as offensive, and I took strides to point that out. But again -- I think there are some themes that he touched upon that should be talked about.
Posted by: G-A-Y | Nov 15, 2007 12:21:09 PM
Mike:
"better than?"
I heard "different than, so please quit lumping me in with you."
Then again, I'm not pushing an agenda. I guess we hear what we want.
Posted by: Jamie | Nov 15, 2007 2:38:55 PM
Jamie, I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was my feelings about what he said. Obviously, I didn't restate what he literally said. That wouldn't make a lot of sense. You're making assumptions about me. My question for you is how can you be a living human being and not have some type of agenda? Are you perfectly satisfied with the status quo? My agenda does include seeing the LGBT community become solidified. I don't think we should become us and them within the community. We get enough of being the "them" from the wingnuts. I have other agendas too. Those are agendas to do with global warming, poverty within the U.S.A, universal medical care, and the reconciliation of Christian churches with the LGBT community. I have personal agendas too. They would include keeping my partner from driving me nuts, seeing that our children avoid the use of drugs and practice safer sex, keeping my car in good operating condition, and definitely keeping warm during these horrible winters. Once again - how can a human being not have agendas?
I admit that guy really struck me the wrong way. He probably reminds me of someone I know. My feeling is that he is the type that would not go to a Pride activity, because there's no one there like him. Obviously we can't all be all types, but we can certainly accept all types. I can't be a twink, a leathermen, a drag queen, and a fatal beauty, but I can like them. Perhaps I should have listened to the guy twice, but I avoided it for the same reason I avoid beating my head against the wall.
I will restate the fact that I was not restating what he said (BTW - that's a bit of sarcasm). I was saying how my brain interpreted what he said. I think I was reading between the lines, and I'm certain I was bringing all of my agendas into play.
Posted by: Mike in the Tndra | Nov 15, 2007 5:04:32 PM
She is sooooooooooooooo fat...oh,wait...
Posted by: Franc | Nov 15, 2007 8:29:58 PM
Frankly I find his views refreshingly honest and I understood his message completely. Gay men are not all sequins, makeup and effeminate; but that's what gets attention and gets laughs from the media-watching overall community. He simply wishes to rail against being stereotyped and wishes to be his own self. In my opinion, one will only see a truly negative message here if one is already looking for a negative message. Hmmm, maybe the steretypical 'drama queen' isn't that far from the mark then.
Posted by: Geoff | Nov 17, 2007 3:08:49 AM
Geoff: Well as I said in the post, I also find that he raises some good points. I just think some of the comments seem a little hostile, which can weaken the message.
I do have to say, however -- that last line of your comment made me laugh. The snarkiness of it seems very "drama queen"-ish ;-)
Posted by: G-A-Y | Nov 17, 2007 11:55:25 AM
G'day G-A-Y,
REgarding your response to my initial comment: I found the video to be more passionate about the subject than hostile. Perhaps he COULD have been more diplomatic or tactful, but passion is also a tool of the public speaker. Had he simply droned on, or even worse simply bitched and whined, would it have attracted this much attention and casued people to keep viewing to the end?
My "Snarky" line seems to have made it's point, thanks for recognising it - very intuitive and astute of you. ;)
Posted by: Geoff | Nov 18, 2007 12:34:46 AM
Geoff: Agreed that passion is more prevalent than hostility. I think the "hostility" that could be perceived is an unfortunate byproduct of the passion, with it holding little to no malicious intent.
Posted by: G-A-Y | Nov 19, 2007 9:24:15 AM
As a non-effeminate, non-flamboyant gay man, I'm sick of the stereotypes perpetuated in the media and on YouTube. Back in October, I did a similar video to his, but with fewer expletives:
Posted by: gadgetfreak84 | Nov 24, 2007 4:57:46 PM
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