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02/20/2008
So much for understanding
The Barna Group recently conducted a survey in which they found that large numbers of young people find modern Christians to be, among other things, anti-gay and judgmental. So in response to that study and those claims, writer Marcia Segelstein has penned a column for the American Family Association's One News Now site, in which she admits that both evangelicals and the Republican party could benefit from "a little PR," and suggests that highlighting their compassionate and caring deeds might be a way to make a positive change.
Okay, fair enough. After all, while there will likely continue to be profound disagreements between evangelicals/non-evangelicals and Democrats/Republicans on certain issues, it would be nice if we could all work together on certain issues (poverty, homelessness, disaster relief, etc). So the general consensus from the AFA's readership will of course be one in which compassion and understanding are highlighted, right?
Well, not exactly. Here are a sampling of comments left in response to Ms. Segelstein's call:
* "You can not be a good Christian and a democrat. The democrat party is for abortion (killing children) and same sex marriages which is against God's teachings."
* "Well written, and of course, true. That said, it sure would help if the media wasn't so strong in promoting their own ideas of what they want others to believe Christians are; however, God is sovereign, and all their plotting will only avail what He allows. We have a responsibility to shine as He commanded."
* "If the gays are so right, as they think, then they are reading a different book AND it is not the Word of God.Look close & you will see that god said that men sleeping? with other men is an Abomination in His Holy sight.Not my words , but God's word."
* "If you think Christians are judgmental, just wait 'til God gets ahold of you!"
* "Christian beliefs are a two edge sword. We must love the sinner, but hate the sin they wallowing in. And the Bible says, " not to be unequally yoke with non-believers. So real christians must wear two hats."
* "In response to the homosexual. I have a neice and a nephew who are gay. I don't hate them , I pray for them most every day. I don't condemn them the Bible does. I HAVE TO STAND ON THE SIDE OF THE CROSS. The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. Its a true sign of a Christian to love."
* "To the Gays in this article I am a 69 yo man who knows the perversion that homosexuals promote in thier lifestyle it begins with thier perversion of young children with the taste of illicit sexual advances and then acts.Alcholics and Drug addicts start the same way with experimenting and then turn themselves into lie. I testimony against it is because all of it goes against the natural order of things as put down by GOD and not evolutionary believers espouting the humanistic view of themselves.There are many references in History about these SINS causing the fall of great nations"Fall of the Roman Empire""
* "The reason why you feel that Christians are not accepting of persons who claim they are gay or lesbian has to do with how you identify yourself. You label yourself gay or lesbian so therefore Christians hate the sinner as well. To be blunt, we are all sinners. The difference is I do not want to sin. I find it challenging to avoid sin but that is my goal. When you say you are the sin (homosexuality) you are giving up any chance to flee from sin. Instead you are claiming it as yours and therefore you are trapped. And remember, people who you consider Christians and are unforgiving have personal traits that make them unforgiving. It is not a product of being a Christian. I know many people that are liberal in theology and politically that are extremely judgmental and unforgiving. In fact, your comments toward Christians is very unforgiving and judgmental."
* "Being a Democrat and a Christian is not possible. The Democrat party is a part every anti-Christian, pro-depravity movement in America. This is not an opinion it is a provable fact. God may not be a Republican, but Satan is most definately a Democrat."
* "Apparently, many have forgotten that Jesus Christ, (if I may add that I believe He was a very good Christian) did not meet the public's standards for love and compassion. They crucified Him on false grounds. Are we surprised that anyone who stands for any kind of truth today is treated the same? If not crucified physically, we are crucified in the liberal media and in the minds of those who don't really what true "love" is."
* "Many of these young people on these comments. Have their bitterness and vengence targeted at wrong group, us Christians. They need to refocus it at those. Whom got them into that perverted bondage and those whom have no concern. For their eternal soul, nor their present day health, nor their life emities. Blame satan, your 1st homosexual seducer, and those whom falsely assure you. That there's nothing sinful nor perverted by your actions. For your eternal soul & life sake. I urge all them to do so. Rev Ronnie Roy"
* "People who complain about Christians and their view of homosexuals seldom know anything of substance about the bible. Christians do. Christians simply repeat what it says and believe it is God's word. Therefore those who call Christians judgemental and criticize them for the position they occupy on the homosexual issue really have a beef with God. He is the one who condems it. A lack of knowledge is defined as ignorance. If you have enough academic skill just look into the bible and read everything about homosexuality. You will learn something."
* "Here are my thoughts. As a 26-year-old gay man, I've experienced first-hand the judgmental hypocracy of many christians. Even when I talked to my pastor seeking guidance, I got a circular argument that basically told me that I had no chance of avoiding hell for being gay. Until christians begin being a force for good and stop fighting gay rights with every ounce of energy they have, people my age will continue to see christianity as little more than an oppressive evil organization designed to bilk people out of their money."
* "I can only attest to how I, a 25yo, views you guys. The reason you are considered petty and mean spirited is because anything even remotely considered "pro" gay is thought of as the end of the world and needs to be fought harder than terrorists it seems sometimes. All it takes is 1 minute reading any story on this site to see the vehemence and contempt that the some of the readership of this site has towards the PERSON, not just the sin. My best friend is actually an evangelist and an hour spent with him and seeing the love in his heart for other people does more PR for Christianity than anything the AFA has done in the decades it has been around. In all sincerity, your friendly neighborhood heathen :)"
* "The only valid response to the 25 y/o heathen is to suggest you read closer. The contempt is against the sin and must be there. This boils down to right or wrong. Anyone who flits into a gray area is really on the side of wrong. And to accept homosexuality (condoning a sinful lifestyle) does undermine one core Christian value, God's creation of man and woman and Jesus relating this relationship to His relationship with the church. Another core issue for Christians is abortion (the killing of innocent life). The Bible warns against this many times and when society does not value life, what else matters? Your pocketbook? Your tax rate? Standing in the gap is not popular and will always been seen negatively no matter how lovingly it is presented to those with hardened hearts."
* "Christians have always had an "image" problem. Especially in a culture that is morally "challenged" we will always be seen as the spoilers of fun (not to mention "anti-homosexual and judgmental"). However, we must continually be light in our world (exposing and opposing sin) as well salt (making the things of God taste good). It's a hard balance, but imperative."
::sigh:: How do you reason with a team who views their image problem to be as predestined as their ownership to morality?!
What do Christians and Republicans have in common? [ONN]
Your thoughts
Ironically enough those comments are exactly the reason why young people are turn-off by Christians.
I think you’ve mention many time before these types of comments and the people who help create this type of image of Christians i.e. AFA & company are doing more good for our side then they know.
Posted by: Alonzo | Feb 20, 2008 7:15:34 PM
I grew up hearing that you should hate the sin, but love the sinner. Then I would hear the words that made it quite apparent that the "sinner" was hated. As soon as one of them said dyke or faggot, I knew. Some of these guys are doing a pretty poor job of hiding their hatred of the person.
Posted by: Mike in the Tndra | Feb 20, 2008 8:27:55 PM
The superiority complex this people claim we have is only evident on their side with their holier than thou comments. I am amazed again and again what religious brainwashing can do when started early enough in life, but of course it is us gays that have all the child recruitment programs. The more I read how these people express themselves the more I understand that it will never end. They need "devil reincarnates" like us on earth to step on and battle in order to give worth to their lives.
Posted by: Marcos | Feb 21, 2008 7:45:51 AM
The superiority complex this people claim we have is only evident on their side with their holier than thou comments. I am amazed again and again what religious brainwashing can do when started early enough in life, but of course it is us gays that have all the child recruitment programs. The more I read how these people express themselves the more I understand that it will never end. They need "devil reincarnates" like us on earth to step on and battle in order to give worth to their lives.
Posted by: Marcos | Feb 21, 2008 7:46:11 AM
Jesus still defines sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40). Those concerned about the sanctity of marriage should insist on outlawing adultery, divorce and abortion. All are sinful because each has an unloved victim. Marriage must be for love, not pregnancy.
What is unloving about a couple in a homosexual love relationships? Neither is victim, neither is unloved. Where is the hurt? Who is the victim being sinned against?
The Gospel writers and prophets do not mention homosexuality because it is not a sin. The King James Version comes closest to a correct translation of two condemning nouns used in Leviticus 18:22 — "sexual immorality". That is not necessarily homosexuality. ("Homosexual" was coined about 1865, so any translation using a form of that word is a lie that needs to be emended. In 1946 it premiered in an English Bible.) If God didn't want men (or women?) to have sex with other men, He would have said "Man shall not lie with man PERIOD That whole "...as with a woman" thing condemns straight men (prisoners) pretending to make it with a woman. Gay men know nothing about sex with women. Obviously, 69ing is OK for them!
Posted by: Fred Conwell | Feb 21, 2008 11:30:22 AM
* "You can not be a good Christian and a democrat. The democrat party is for abortion (killing children) and same sex marriages which is against God's teachings."
I find this comment somewhat humorous. Since God did not teach, you can argue that Jesus his Son teached, but again he never said a word about these issues.
It's hard to argue with people who read a book about what someone else said about another person, and come away claiming it was the person who the book was talking about that wrote it, instead of the person who actually wrote it. Now if your confused after that, you will understand why Fundamentalist are confused.
Posted by: Rob | Feb 21, 2008 11:57:28 AM
"Christian beliefs are a two edge sword. We must love the sinner, but hate the sin they wallowing in. And the Bible says, " not to be unequally yoke with non-believers. So real christians must wear two hats."
--
And two faces, and two mouths, and so on, and so on…
Posted by: Emproph | Feb 21, 2008 1:09:25 PM
As a 21 yr old gay female that was born into a strict Catholic family, I can absolutely see why most young people would think that. Because its absolutely TRUE! What other religion do you see having anti-gay rallies & pro-traditional man to woman marriage, calling homosexuality an abomination & that you'd burn in hell for even supporting your gay friends? I mean, c'mon! Even in their response to the survey they're pushing more & more youth out of their camp! And to this comment:
"People who complain about Christians and their view of homosexuals seldom know anything of substance about the bible."
I know exactly what the bible says about homosexuality. I went to Sunday mass every Sunday for eighteen years until I could choose exactly what I wanted for my own life. I saw exactly what you did to people like me, and now, I choose not to follow your ten commandments. People are different, get over it, this isn't the 1800's, people.
Posted by: K | Feb 21, 2008 6:38:52 PM
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