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07/01/2008
Gay equality makes citizen wanna puke; baseless 'fact' regurgitation makes us wanna do same
The following letter was written to Illinois' Belleville News-Democrat:
I read about the gay pride event in Belleville that was given a blessing by Mayor Mark Eckert, a position I and many others disagree with. He says, "Belleville doesn't have a problem with people celebrating diversity."
I've got some news for Eckert, homosexuality is not the same as racial or ethnic diversity. Racial and ethnic origins are something one cannot choose and diversity indeed improves the community. To give the homosexual the same status and Eckert's remarks make me want to throw up.
These people chose that lifestyle, a proven fact. The liberal media has constantly reported, and many have accepted their faulty reporting, that homosexuality is a born-with or genetic trait. However, the substantive genetic research has proven that, "Preferential homosexuality is not found naturally in any infrahuman mammalian species." (W. Gadpaille in Archives of General Psychiatry). Joseph Nicolosi, clinical director of a clinic in Encino, Calif., says, "There is no basis, neither hormonal nor genetic, which seem to play a determining role in homosexuality."
The gay and lesbian community have pursued the issue of genetic validation in order to receive a preferred minority-rights status -- something that is not deserved.
Eckert believes he is a progressive person and wants to bring our community into the 21st century. Validating a lifestyle that is inappropriate in a family-orientated environment is not the direction that most want our community to take.
Jim Shively
Belleville
Alright, so first off: No need for vomit. The ejection of partially-digested food matter from the stomach via the mouth is not going to be good for anyone.
But regurgitational trepidation aside: Let's talk about some of the supposed "facts" cited by Mr. Shively. First up: The quote he attributes to one Dr. W. Gadpaille. This quote is culled from almost thirty-year-old research written by Dr. Gadpaille, in which he examined the distinctions between the type of homosexuality that is found in humans and that which is found in other species. While Gadpaille's research is primarily cited by anti-gay/pro-"ex-gay" activists like Richard Cohen (who, as you can see here, has recited the exact same quote that Mr. Shively uses), Dr. Gadpaille's work actually seems to be far more intricate than these anti-gay proponents would have you believe. We haven't been able to pin down the nearly three decades old research for ourselves to see if the quote cited by Mr. Shively has been pulled from its context. However, judging by who's using it and how it is used, we'd be willing to bet a sizable amount that oversimplification and misrepresentation are the orders of the day.
Speaking of oversimplification and misrepresentation: It is HIGHLY disingenuous to present Joseph Nicolosi as merely a "clinical director of a clinic in Encino, Calif." For Mr. Nicolosi is not a mere doctor, but rather one of the nation's foremost "ex-gay" and reparative therapy proponents. He is the president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), and travels with Focus on the Family on their faith-based "Love Won Out" conferences. Saying he is merely an unbiased "clinical doctor" is like saying Barack Obama is merely a Democratic voter with a passing interest in the outcome of the 2008 election. Both Barack and Joseph have made clear their desired outcomes, and both will temper all statements to lead them to their goals!
As for "genetic validation": The gay and lesbian community has not really pursued anything. We have merely culled our thoughts on human nature and human sexuality from life experience, casual observation, available science, shared experiences, and biological truth. From there, many of us (though certainly not all) have come to a conclusion that bio-genetics likely have a strong role in sexual orientation. Unlike the "ex-gay" proponents, who desperately need to deny any and all biological root in order to back their claims, we on the pro-gay side are far more willing to listen to the available evidence before casting our opinions. The truth, for those willing to admit it, is that while not definitive bio root has been pinned down, there is far more reason to conclude that genetics play a role than there is buy into the "ex-gays" assorted bag of nurture-based causes.
And finally, the claim that gayness is "a lifestyle that is inappropriate in a family-orientated environment": Well that is only true if you are of the antiquated mind that families should shun any kids who don't fit into the "pink is for girls, blue is for boys; heterosexality is for everyone, homosexuality is Devilish" mindset. For those who realize that families, just like biological realities, are far more complex than that, the acceptance of gays as part of the spectrum of normalcy is one of the most "pro-family" views you can hold. Every single day, families are needlessly ripped apart by non-acceptance of gay children, parents, siblings, goldfish, and assorted other loved ones. And the sick thing is that this rift is being encouraged by those who claim to be oh-so-invested in "family values." Which is exactly why those of us who are sick and tired of the unnecessary strife and estrangement feel such a strong desire to lash out against the ideas that are being put forth by anti-gay groups and individuals, and then casually regurgitated as fact by folks like Jim Shively. We are trying to move us ALL forward into the 21st century, while they are trying to keep some of us down (as if it's still the 19th century).
YOUR LETTERS: Mayor's remarks on gay pride event 'make me want to throw up' [Belleville News-Democrat]
Your thoughts
The reason that Mr. Shively and the intolerant individuals on that side of this argument rely on 30 year old research and quotes from Paul Cameron and the other lying liars like him is because any recent (pertinent and credible) research proves them to be wrong. And all of them know (or at least should by now know) that they are using baseless arguments, but choose to continue perpetrating the lie.
This recent twins study arrives at very different conclusions. It was just published within the last week:
Homosexual Behavior Largely Shaped By Genetics And Random Environmental Factors
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080628205430.htm
Posted by: Dick Mills | Jul 1, 2008 2:15:36 PM
I used to live in the Belleville, IL area. It needs all the progressive politics it can get. You'd never guess it is a suburb of a large city (St. Louis, MO). The race relations there are terrible, and unapologetically so on both sides.
As for the whole 'lifestyle choice' nonsense that right-wingers always try to bring up: Is anyone else reminded of the whole 'ebonics' bruhaha? To wit, 'Sure, black people can't change their skin color, but do they really have to talk like that? Do they really have to act all hippity-hop and use lazy language? They choose to do that!'
It's all BS from the same usual sources.
Posted by: Larry | Jul 1, 2008 2:38:13 PM
I'm just glad I live in this metropolitan area Hoboken/NYC. I know those types are here as well, they just can't get it together and write a letter.
Posted by: johnozed | Jul 1, 2008 3:19:02 PM
I always wonder when people say things like this what experience they are drawing on. At what point did Mr. Shively choose his sexual orientation, which I'm presuming is heterosexual? Was it a once in a lifetime type decision, or does he decide on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis? Does he wake up Monday morning and think, "Hmm, this week I think I'll be straight. Maybe next week I'll be gay."
I just don't think it works like that.
Posted by: Michael M. | Jul 1, 2008 3:35:52 PM
It amazes me how heterosexuals are so dead set on the notion that being gay is a choice. How on earth would they know? They've never gone through the process of realization, conflict, compensation and finally acceptance. If if were such a choice, why do we have such a high level of suicide in our community? We do, however, CHOOSE to live honestly, which is the only we can keep our sanity. The harder we fight to change, the more miserable we are. HOW and WHY we prefer the same sex is a mystery to just about everyone on this planet in the same way that scientists are baffled about just how memories are stored and retrieved or exactly how gravity works. We know it's science, we just don't know how.
So, Jim, accept the fact that you don't know what it is like being gay and not choosing it. Accept the fact that we don't know why gay's are gay and that scientists are always theorizing and re-theorizing about everything. But most importantly, Jim, understand that humans are the most complex animals on this planet and we'll die off long before we know everything about ourselves that science has to teach us. So unless you are omniscience of all things scientific and genetic, why not just leave the gays alone and show them/us some good old fashioned human kindness and respect.
Posted by: AJ | Jul 1, 2008 4:57:43 PM
Let’s just take this apart a little and examine it closely.
Mr. Shively said: “These people chose that lifestyle, a proven fact.” This is actually true, but only if you define “lifestyle” as the way one chooses to live. It is not synonymous with “sexual orientation.” And it should not be surprising that any people chose a lifestyle consistent with their sexual orientation. I’ll bet Shively did.
Mr. Shivley also said: “Preferential homosexuality is not found naturally in any infrahuman mammalian species." This may also be true, IF we come to an agreement that “preferential homosexuality” means that a male heterosexual giraffe, for example (which is to say a giraffe whose hypothalamus responds sexually only to female giraffe pheromones) “prefers” to mate with other male giraffes. This would be unnatural, given the programming of the giraffe’s hypothalamus. It’s extremely unlikely that this straight male giraffe would do that. It also, however, just as unlikely that a male giraffe whose hypothalamus responds sexually only to MALE giraffe pheromones would “prefer” to mate with a female giraffe.
Spin, anyone?
Posted by: robin reardon | Jul 1, 2008 5:32:00 PM
Religion is 1000% a chosen lifestyle. It involves door-to-door recruitment, entire schools devoted to indoctrination(at a fee!), there are special rules, special events, special clothing, special places to do religious things. It absolutely qualifies as chosen, and as a lifestyle. People switch religions, sometimes faster than they change clothes.
So if being gay is a chosen lifestyle, then it's in good, constitutionally protected company.
Religion has been responsible for various wars, the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials.....we gays haven't been nearly that productive with the bloodshed. So if it is a chosen lifestyle, one could argue that it's a pretty healthy choice as I don't think we've been feeding anyone to lions for worshiping the wrong god. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of any large, organized group of gays who've gone about killing, maiming, or doing anything worse to someone for not being gay.
Posted by: Jason D | Jul 1, 2008 6:26:30 PM
Thank you Dick M for the article! I hadn't found it yet. And am already working up a 'report' on it for another site were we were just discussing the Kinsey Male Sexual Scale,
which runs in gradations from 0 Always with a female (exclusively heterosexual) to 3 equal occurrences ('full' bisexual) to 6 Always with a male (exclusively homosexual), and includes X or asexual ..which means Never had sex.
Thus this Swedish same-sex twin only (identical and fraternal) study reports answers, from ALL sets of twins in Sweden between the ages of 20-47, to the question
"Have you ever had sex with a person of the same sex?"
All yes answers eg Kinsey men 1-6 are lumped together, and the 0 and X in the No group. Women were also asked, their Kinsey Scale is different.
In Sweden I presume 95%+ of all twins are raised together. That statistic is not given,
but it means that their SHARED environments are the same. The experiences that experience differently are NON-Shared environment. and for the Genetic evaluation
Identicals share 100% of their genes and fraternals 50%.
Results showed that for men: 35% of reported sexual activity is genetic.64 % is NON-shared differences and only 1% is shared environmental experiences, such as family,religion etc.
For women 18% is genetic, 64% non-shared, 16% SHARED environment.
The essence then is that sexual orientation is our genetic predisposition, molded by
non=family, non-shared expriences that hold the major influence.
PS: For those who are wondering RELIGION is a 100% SHARED 'orientation'. chosen, non-genetic, non-environmetally determined activity. EG you are NEVER born to it you must be CAREFULLY TAUGHT...
Sorry to 'rant' but I guess I worked up my little report right here. Later guys.
California MD
Posted by: LOrion | Jul 1, 2008 10:00:54 PM
I live in the Belleville area and before I saw the name posted at the end of the letter, I thought it was my mum that had sent it in. But no, my mum doesn't have the balls to do it.
There was a sound off in the paper the day before regarding the Belleville Pride as well:
"Shame, not pride
When I read about Belleville's first gay pride event, I was dismayed and disgusted at this degrading of Belleville. How could city leaders let this debauchery happen? If this is what it takes to be pulled into the 21st century, I want to get off."
Posted by: Rachel | Jul 3, 2008 6:44:41 PM
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