Good As You

True the Mormon Church bankrolled Prop. 8 - But where are the protest of the 70% of African-Americans and Catholics who voted for this.

I'm following this story on other gay blogs but with the exception of a few namely Pam's House Blend no one seems to be addressing the fact that one of the largest group of US citizens who've experienced first hand the harsh reality of a society that has discriminated against them voted for discrimination to be written into the CA Constitution!

Where is the outrage?

I think its deplorable that you were behind this. I am a straight woman and I fully support everyone's right to marry whomever they please. That 15 million would have served a much better good feeding the hungry or homeless. Or helping out in Darfur.
I am totally disgusted by your actions. How dare you try to deny someone their constitutional right?

I no sooner clicked send on my email to a friend in which I stated that it's time we start hitting back, and hard. I mentioned that I saw a few calls on different blogs for protests and marches, even on Washington. So then I click over here to see what is up, and this is the first story I see! I'd love to see the march continue, 24 hours/day even while services are going on.

Uhm Trish -- you realize this is a gay activism site, right?

Just an FYI - the temples are closed on sundays and mondays -

Dec 7th all LDS Churches have testimony meeting were anyone can get up and say anything they like to the congregation (this is at their Church/Ward building not the temples)

Please join us for a protest in orange County this Sunday at 10AM at one of the largest churches in the country!

http://saddleback8protest.blogspot.com/

Looks like it's getting a little out of hand. No surprise there. It only takes a couple of people out of the thousand or so present to get carried away. Couple of arrests, noone hurt.

By the weekend, conservative websites will be taking the arrests as proof that all gay people are uncontrollably violent.

Trish might be using the phrase 'you were behind this' to address any mormons who might happen on this site...?

1. This Prop was voted in because of our cultural homophobia, not some specific groups homophobia.

2. There are not enough black or Hispanic voters in CA to be "responsible" for Prop 8 passin.

3. People are outraged that fear and hate have won over reason and the foundations of the CA Constitution which regards equality as a right for everyone.

Let's not add racism and other prejudices to this issue.

Mariah, I don't think it's a prejudice or racism to point out that there was a very high African-American turnout at the polls in support of Obama. This is a good thing. However, we must also recognize that many of those African-Americans are Christian and are know to be anti-gay. It stands to reason that while many of them may have voted for Obama, it's very likely they also voted in support of Prop 8.

Can we think of this as analyzing the demographics of the vote instead of racial profiling? Afterall, we could be accused of ageism as well, when we talk about the number of sr. citizens who voted yes on Prop 8.

Mariah, racial prejiduce is not being added, at least not by most of us. Every poll shows the homophobia in the black community. Now that Obama is president-elect, they've lost their last excuse not to confront their own bigotry, something we're going to make them do.

The morman church supplied almost fifty percent of the funds out of its own coffers. When you count the mormons who donated their own money at the command of their leaders, that figure is well over fifty percent. Society's homophobia bears a large part of the blame, but for providing so much of the funding, the Mormons are well deserving of our rage.

Those cultists will rue the day they tried to take control of our lives.

ENOUGH with the BLACK thing...NOT, NOT, NOT...happening...CA is only 8% black, even if 100% were registered and voted and voted for PROP 8 they DID NOT in any way affect this outcome...Just how many MORMONS are black???? Come on.
Good cause folks...lets get to it. Jeremy do not cancel your plans yet. We should get some sense from the Court how long they will take to decide on the new cases soon.
Ummmm...do not know about Trish...how did she get so mixed up...ah well it is late.

Remember BE CAREFUL who you HATE (H8)...it could someone you LOVE.

Denying the fact that the majority of the black demographic voted for Prop. 8 isn't a great idea either. It's ironic that they're voting for something that draws a chilling civil rights parallel to interracial marriage.

We can't point the finger and 'blame the blacks' either, that'd be racism. It's not their race that caused them to vote on Prop. 8, it was their religion. Honestly, I have not heard of a single atheist/agnostic voting for Prop. 8. Its very existence relies on religious beliefs.

And currently in the newscast, some caller named 'Eric' called in equating gay marriage to pedophilia and relating it to Satan and the number 666 somehow... fuck, religion is a seriously disturbing mental disorder.

Again...all read the voting results. 86% of all frequent CHURCH goers voted for the Prop...that is PROTESTANT churches mostly as only 60% of Catholics voted for it.
83% of those who attend church infrequently voted AGAINST the PROP. It was a religious vote NOT a racial one (only 60% of blacks voted for it)... 75% of those under 29 voted against it....so time will tell.
HERE IS THE CARD the LA Gay and Lesbisn center is sending out to the leader of the Mormon Church, in your name, if you make a donation to fight H8 of $5 or more:

Dear President Monson:
A donation has been made in your name by L XXX XXX to “invalidateprop8.org” to overturn California's Proposition 8 and restore fundamental civil rights to all citizens of California. The money will be donated to legal organizations fighting the case and to support grass-roots activities in support of full marriage equality. Although we decry the reprehensible role the Church of Latter Day Saints leadership played in denying all Californians equal rights under the law, we are pleased a donation has been made on your behalf in the effort to overturn the discrimination your church members helped enshrine in the California Constitution. Given that throughout its history the Mormon Church has been subjected to bigotry, we hope you appreciate the donation in your name to fight religious bigotry here in California.

It was purely RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY that did this. Any gay or gay friend that stays in one of these churches especially in the closet, is hurtiing themselves and all they love by doing so ..I do not believe even a benevolent God would forgive you for doing so. Find an accepting denomination to join..there are many, many out there.

African Americans comprise 6% of the population in California. Please lay off with the blaming !teh blacks! for Prop 8 passing. It was a state-wide culture of homophobia led by lots and lots of nice whitey white people that passed that fucking prop.

People vote according to THEIR special interests. NO official funds from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were made to support Prop. 8. Private donations may have been made by members of the "Mormon" Church, however private citizens of the United Stats of America are permitted to donate to whatever cause they deem fit. The gays are an extremely wealthy community, owning businesses, running large corporations, the majority of which dont have children of their own to have to pay for. Why dont the gays raise their own millions and unite their pocket books?

Uh, yeah Veritas, that's great, way to ignore the fact that the president of their church basically told members to vote Yes.

Psst. We had more money in and we still lost. The problem is the existence of the stupidity that is religion.

To clarify, it's not racist to discuss homophobia in minority groups. It's racist to BLAME said groups for Prop 8 passing when they don't make up enough of the voters to have done so. What I'm seeing is a lot of blame and not enough real discussion.

Is homophobia within minority groups an important discussion? Yes. But it's actually separate from the larger issue of our collective homophobia as a country. It's a systemic problem. Calling out minority groups or even religious groups for it is not going to get anyone anywhere. It's just divisive. And it completely ignores the larger problem. Which is that we as a country still have a long way to go in terms of combating homophobia.

Look, Prop 8 succeeded for any number of reasons. Blame is about as helpful as writing angry posts on the internet. We need to take responsibility, we need to work at changing minds, and we need to get ready for a long fight. Civil Rights took a long time...hopefully this won't take as long. But we won't get anywhere if we focus on only one part of the bigger issue.

Mariah,

You are absolutely right. I have read a number of sites and the reactions to Prop 8 passing and the biggest problem we have is the fact that minority communities don't have any reason to respect us. We as a community need to do outreach in the "hoods and barrios" as one commenter put it to remind people that we are here. We also need to address and deal with some of the racism in the gay community and work with our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters of color. Racial minorities voted against us because they don't "know" any gay people. We need to help them see that there are people in their communities that are affected by this amendment.

I am an ex-mormon who had a rather heated debate with my sister last week on the topic of whether the church tells their members how to vote. She says that the church does not pressure anyone to do anything. I made the point that 99.9 % of members probably vote the same way, but I am curious:

Can churches donate money to elections and candidates? The church takes 10 percent of their members income as tithing. Can they use that money for political causes

Is there actual proof of the church sending out a memo asking or advising people to contribute?

Are there rules about rich, non-profit churches who don't pay taxes, interfering in the political process?

My wife and I voted against the proposition and were sad to see it succeed (even our kids saw through the BS), but it is equally disturbing that the "majority" can end up being people outside of California who have no business putting their noses into California politics.

I think this election may raise awareness of how much outsider money is used to influence local (state) issues. Perhaps there should be a limit to how much out of state groups can contribute to any intiatives, propositions etc.

How would say, people in Colorado feel if a group from Georgia engaged in influence peddling on a local issue, one that doesn't directly affect Georgians? States need to excerise the right to keep others from meddling in their business.

this is just an extension of their history, the 1857 murder of innocent women and children by mormons, the mountain meadows massacre. I wonder why they were banned from political offices in early, Idaho,....oh, yeah, it was their record of trying to take of politically and running non mormons out!!!!!

http://www.electiontrack.com/prop8.php

Look at this. Yes on 8 reported $36,754,585.00
No reported $79,860,023.00

"No" had much more money...so this isn't about $...it is about a certain group trying to infringe beliefs on others. Religious groups consider marriage between a man and woman sacred since way back...you know...Adam & Eve. Homosexuals should stop trying to force people to accept their lifestyle. You see, as christians, muslims, jewish...we can not do this as it would be defying God's request/warning to obstain from homosexuality. So, you see, it is a deep conviction between the person and God.

Not only will people continue to support their religious doctrine, they will fight for it and have for may centuries. Next will be a HUGE GIGANTIC BOYCOTT of all businesses/corp that contributed to NO on 8.
EXAMPLES:
APPLE - $100,000
PGE 250,000
CA teachers union - 1 million

Wow, CA TEachers are really worried about their schools...giving all that $ instead of using it for deprived students. PGE could've given $ to seniors that will do without heat this winter,and APPLE? WTH! I will never buy an APPLE product again.

One more thing. BIG DEAL so your GAY. Do you want a trophy? People are sick and tired of the media shoving GAYNESS down viewers throats like homosexuals are all heros. If someone wants to be gay then be gay and leave the rest of the people ALONE. Don't try to change religious doctrine that was set by GOD. People did not set the moral standards....God did...sorry, but that is the way it goes. I'm done ranting for now!

Oh, Robin. You're a perfect example of what we're up against: aggressive, bullying, unable to see the difference between personal religious faith and civil liberties, working from a place that says gay people want something "special," etc. Seriously -- your comments sound like they came from a "pro-family" caricature of our own creation.

G-A-Y,

Thank you for saying that I am a perfect example of what "you" are up against. Yes, I'm happy to be agressive when needs be. "BULLY?" That seems a bit far fetched...I simply gave my firm opinion and stated some financial facts supported with the link to "ELECTION TRACK". Yes, my comments do sound like they are pro-family because that is exactly the kind of person that I am and I am not ashamed to claim that. Are you "anti-family"?

Civil VS religious? Yes, I thouroughly understand the difference. Marriage is a religious ceremony and is a sacred institution to join a man & woman & God. I'm glad that millions of people agree with me and voted that way (twice). I never said that a person could not be homosexual. That is an individuals choice to follow that road. But, to many faiths, same gender marriage is a mockery of a sacred institution. Why are homosexuals not happy with current civil rights that homosexuals already hold? Must they mock God to be happy?

"Civil VS religious? Yes, I thouroughly understand the difference."

No dear, you do not. But here, I'll give you an assignment:

(1) Go have a religious ceremonial marriage without getting a civil license.

(2) Go get a civil license without having an ancillary religious ceremony (which is always an option).

See which choice will allow you to obtain the rights and benefits of marriage. Then, with what you've learned, try to understand that it is the latter concept for which gay activists are fighting. Churches will always be free to deny any couple that they want!!

Nobody is trying to rob you of your religious freedom. In fact, it's enraging that your side thinks we CARE so much about the religious ceremonies in which folks choose to engage. How arrogant.

I have no need for your assignment. I am already married. I had no problem getting a license or getting a minister to perform the religous promises. I guess the problem your having is that you are same gender and I married the heterosexual way.

However odd, you mentioned your rage towards faithful people that simply want to protect their relgious ceremony of marriage, even calling them arrogant. You see it is not really that arrogant to desire legal protection. If homosexuals had been granted same-gender marriage...then it would highly threaten many faiths that would refuse to perform such same-gender joinings. In this litigious world many would purposely ask priests/ministers/rabbis/clerics to marry them and upon refusal would most likely sue the congregation and possibly the entire denomination. Kind of like the ole "slip-n-fall" lawsuit. The same goes with business owners that might have deep conviction to avoid supporting this same-gender marriage..../they could be sued for refusing to make a wedding cake etc. Infact, everyone has heard of the current lawsuits regarding gay rights. I myself have been victim of this. I was forced to hire a less qualified homosexual just to avoid a lawsuit. This lesbian took total advantage of the company crying "gay rights" for every part of the job she did not want to do, she was a very poor performer and could not be fired...because you guessed it...gay rights. So you see buesiness owners may feel that there is nearly always some element of manipulation or legal ramifications of being involved with homosexuals.

Nobody wants their chaples, mosques, synagogues, temples etc defiled by performing an act that they believe God forbids.

Which, by the way, the title of this forum is "FYI, Mormon temple protest" I have not heard of any protest at Baptist, Methodist, Seik, Hindu, Luthern, Catholic, Bahai, Islamic, Jewish, Greek Orthodox, Four Square, Presbyterian, Amish, Quaker, Menonite, Budhist, Masonic, Anglican, Evangelical, Seventh Day Adventist buildings. Why do the Mormons get so much attention? What about the rest of us?

Jeff Roth,

Your comment about a massacre interested me. I decided to check that out further. Well, here is the story I understood: Evidently, the U.S. govt had declared war on the mormons and had issued an order to send some troops to Utah to again try to get rid of the mormons. At this time, Utah was not part of the US. The mormons had sought refuge and settled there because they were run out of the U.S. by mobs that murdered many church leaders and members, raped women and stole developed properties, homes and and beautiful temples. Very sad story and an embarrssment to the US history. Anyway, when a particular group of southern mormons found out about the troops coming they were hyped up to defend themselves and gained confidence with the local native americans to help them fight. Then a large & wealthy wagon train came through the territory bragging about how they had the gun that killed their prophet J. Smith and that they were gonna do the same to Brigham Young. The wagon train was mad because the mormons would not give them grain for their cattle. (although they did sell grain for human consumption) The mormons were trying to conserve....not knowing how this war with the US was going to go. Anyway, a small group of mormon men decided to kill the people on the wagon train (except the younger children). It seems that they thought history would repeat itself and this wagon train would do the same thing and take their property and temples again and join up with the U.S. in the fight. A very sad thing . They considered it an act of war and massacered the people. However, the leaders of the church did not condone this attack and the man seemingly in charge received the death penalty. Sad story. Especially sad when the entire church might be judged merely upon the horrible acts of a few rengades in the 1800's. I say perhaps people should look at all the good that this mormon church does today.
www.lds.org/humanitarianservices

I think many religions have a part of history that is a scar on their souls. What matters is the people NOW and how they do good for others. Infact, I bet most religions will readily help any person in need....gay or straight, without regards to race or age...however, when they try to protect sanctity in mariiage...suddenly they are the people from hell.