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'How to win your civil rights' by Guy WhodDenyYouTheSame

by Jeremy Hooper

The following Christmas message comes to us from a writer who admits, among other things, that he is " simply undone and mind-boggled by (2) guys making out, (2) chicks going at it."  But for some strange reason, he thinks this sort of mindset (which also includes using religion to deny others' civil equality) should make him the guiding voice of our apparently monolithic "Rainbow Community."  Enjoy:



The "Rainbow" Community does more HARM to itself rather than HELPING its beleaguered, so-called
"freedom fighter" cause!
Let me give you some pointers than can help you out:

  • Stop using the PLIGHT OF OTHERS (blacks, women, latinos, asians, disabled americans, at-risk-children, children in Cambodia, Nelson Mandela, etc.,) OK... I'm being facetious after "disabled americans" :-)
  • If you must LOOK to these groups for so-called "inspiration" then LOOK, REALLY LOOK at how they FOUGHT THEIR OWN BATTLES
  • Neither Blacks nor Women felt this overwhelming "need" to TAG-TEAM their cause OR base the "validity" of their cause for what they believed in on the "back" of another cause or issue
EXAMPLE:  BLACKS DID NOT RELY ON ANY OTHER "suffering group" TO GAIN SUPPORT FOR THEMSELVES AS A "suffering group" OR "Woe is me Black..."  But, "Have Mercy on me Black... Because you Had Mercy on them (whoever)" 
[Now, now... I know you THINK the GAY PLIGHT is the SAME as THE BLACK PLIGHT...BUT...]
No one is stopping GAYS from getting JOBS! Arguably, some of the MOST WEALTHIEST INDIVIDUALS in the US and in the WORLD that sit atop Corporations, Congress, Media, Hollywood, Music and Fashion Industries are: HOMOSEXUAL!
No one is stopping GAYS from VOTING! 
No one is stopping GAYS from GETTING AN EDUCATION!
No one is putting BURNING CROSSES on the lawns of RAINBOW CHURCHES!
No one is SIC'ING DOGS on GAYS
So... This is also why MANY BLACKS feel TOTALLY DISRESPECTED and OUTRAGED by GAYS "assumption" that their "civil rights issue" is remotely on par with what they KNOW was truly their CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE.
I am sure Gays feel that their issue is IMPORTANT, but in light of the OPPRESSION of BLACKS, JEWS and WOMEN you guys gotta GROW UP, GET REAL and GAIN SOME INSIGHT...
Your issue comes down to WANTING PEOPLE "ALL PEOPLE" to "LIKE"  "STOMACH" "SUPPORT" and not make a "DISTINCTION" between what you guys believe to be A "REAL" RELATIONSHIP as opposed to what others believe to be a "REAL" RELATIONSHIP.
I mean on one level (to a non-Homosexual) this argument almost sounds INFANTILE.
I mean so what???  If my own mother and father don't like who I make love to, spend time with, make babies with (well... you guys can't quite do that... but, that's another discussion) OH WELL!  TOUGH COOKIES! They'll get over it and if they never get over it... Again SO WHAT?
As long as they don't have to be with the person and I choose to... So what? They gotta RIGHT to NOT LIKE my PERSONAL CHOICES and DECISIONS...
That's an intelligent and MATURE MINDSET to have (when others DONT APPROVE of whom YOU APPROVE)
But you guys are stuck on this...
"Oh Woe is Me... Please everybody "agree" that I am NOT WRONG in my "choice" [but you say it isn't choice...
fine, but we all still "choose" who we want to sleep with and be with anyway... So, OK... like there is some level of choice that still comes into play here] of HAVING SEX WITH MY SAME GENDER!"
It's like really you guys would be MOST surprised to KNOW that HETEROSEXUALS don't CARE WHO YOU DO!  But, what we DO CARE ABOUT is YES... Just because you guys "feel" what you do is "NORMAL" doesn't mean YOU SHOULD FORCE OTHERS to "feel" THE SAME WAY about what you  DO.
AND "ACCEPTANCE."  As long as YOU APPROVE and YOU ACCEPT what you do that should be ALL
[my grandma used to tell us as kids:  "Watch a person who needs a CROWD to JOIN IN
and HELP THEM DO what they want to do...It's a SURE SIGN something is 'WRONG' with what their doing..."
She also said (God Rest Her Soul) "...When you KNOW in YOUR HEART you are DOING THE RIGHT THING you CAN STAND IN IT and STAND ON IT ALONE!"]
Which brings me to my next few points:
  •  Get some "backbone" and hustle and PROVE to others WHY they should hear your cry and your cause based on the MERITS of why Homosexuality is GOOD, NORMAL, PERFECT, ENDEARING, DECENT, NON-PERVERSE, and LEGITIMATE... Again ON ITS "OWN" MERITS.
  • Show why those who practice Homosexuality are NOT in ERROR, are NOT mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically disturbed.
NOTE: But, you see that's kind of hard to do, when such a community is so SEXUALLY-DRIVEN, SEXUALLY CHARGED, and everything seems to REVOLVE and EVOLVE around SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX, and....wait a minute... EVEN MORE SEX!
I did some research...
I noticed that everything in the Rainbow Community (from selling shoes to booze, toes to nose, hat to cat, shirt to skirt, jacket to racket, ball to mall, food to lewd) is ultra drenched in the SELLING OF SEX.
Yes, Heterosexuals use SEX to SELL.
But my God...
You can at least see an AD for Kool-Aid with a bunch of kids just frolicking
You can at least see an AD for Budweiser with a bunch of guys watching a game (clothes on!) tossing
chips, dip and a football
You can at least see an AD for Tampax with a couple of women sitting around (clothes on!) looking like college students, girls next door and business women discussing how to stay "protected.
At least you can see a Jared's commercial of a couple, gently strolling and loving kiss (not tounging each other down)
This stuff HURTS you guys to the "outside-Rainbow Community" its like...
Are these folks, i.e., Homosexuals ever not obsessed with their genitalia, hook-ups, banging and getting their "freak on?"
Even Heterosexuals KNOW that their is a TIME and PLACE suitable for SEXUALITY and INTIMACY.
This knowledge, wisdom and "good ol common sense" seems to be lost on Homosexuals and lets be honest...
That is a bit "freakish" and gives people the idea (and perhaps justifiable) that Homosexuality is a lifestyle
of EXCESS, which I don't care (straight OR gay) too MUCH of anything (sex, food, alcohol, etc.) is NOT A  HEALTHY LIFESTYLE.
  • Finally, GET HOLLYWOOD FIGURES out of your barracks!
But, the reality is, HOLLYWOOD CELEBRITIES are not considered by day-to-day folk as "REAL" PEOPLE.
Working Class, Poor Folks look at it this way:
"These people are FUN to watch, FANTASIZE about... But, they hold no REAL truth, knowledge or deep understanding on 'real-world' issues."
Now, we know that that is NOT TRUE.  Celebrities are people and have thoughts, convictions,
beliefs, etc.
But, REAL people don't EXPECT that from them and don't RESPECT that of them when they get
"too" political!  Ask LimpBizKit...The Dixie Chicks...Rosie O'Donnell... Oprah... 
Additionally, there is a MINDSET of MIDDLE AMERICA (the majority of Americans) that feel
Again...Getting these folks to "champion" on your behalf again only WEAKENS your positon
(that homosexuality is ALL GOOD, ALL DECENT and NORMAL) and PINPOINT that your cause is PROOF of PERVERSION!
FOR MY RELIGIOUS REASONS (and, YES... That's a thing too... You guys gotta REALIZE that people are not going to chuck out their Bibles, dump their faith and poo-poo away their religious teachings to make you "FEEL GOOD" about your lives.)
Honestly, MATURITY should NOT want people to override their FAITH to SUPPORT one's OWN
Conversely and in fairness...
I believe this...
If THE GOVERNMENT GIVES YOU GUYS THE "RIGHT" to so-call 'MARRY' (it will never be perceived
as a "marriage" in the eyes of a person like me and many others... But, you shouldn't be so over
preoccupied about that...That's MY RIGHT... MY FREEDOM... to disagree)
Then so be it! 
But, don't ASK ME TO VOTE on it for you...
(Something that "I like" and believe "people should accept" and though I would want that) because YOUR CONSCIENCE TELLS YOU "OTHERWISE."
Then you shouldn't EXPECT me to VOTE on GAY MARRIAGE because I LIKE YOU
Ultimately, the RAINBOW COMMUNITY would make much better stride with folks if they would
learn to NOT BE SO "STRIDENT" (I really loved that comment from someone on your site about
  • STOP calling everyone that "disagree" with your LIFE as BIGOTS, HATEFUL and HOMOPHOBE.
Just because I'm simply undone and mind-boggled by (2) guys making out, (2) chicks going at it doesn't mean that I don't have the GOOD GRACE to look beyond such "acts" and still "recognize" that I ought to
give BASIC day-to-day common courtesy and respect to you on a street, on a job, in the neighborhood,
at school, in the public square, in a church.
  • SHOW some "sensitivity" to OTHERS THAT ARE "DIFFERENT" FROM YOU...
  • DONT EXPECT neither DEMAND that PEOPLE "LIKE" YOU OR WHAT YOU DO...(It really is quite IRRELEVANT.)
  • SHOW some "maturity" that as my mom told us as kids: "Folks REALLY don't give a hoot
about your crying."  Folks RESPOND to stoicism, resilience, mutual-understanding and mutual-respect!
Why should I spend my time giving you guys ACTUAL POINTERS on how to WIN YOUR CASE
Honestly, I just feel that you guys are creating an unnecessary precipice in society that out of your
ignorance, immaturity and zealotry you can't seem to realize it negates the very objective that you wish to achieve in society.

-L. Pat Williams


The only thing we will say?  Well, that we never refer to our opposition with the words "BIGOTS, HATEFUL and HOMOPHOBE" -- we simply say that certain anti-gay, heteorsexist, discriminatory views are WRONG. Which is exactly what we will say to this chap: That it is JUST PLAIN WRONG for you to boil down the LGBT community into one prevailing mold, and then to set terms for how this monolith should achieve the goals that you yourself would deny them!  As a guidebook, these written pointers are about as helpful to the LGBT equality cause as are the human pointers who throw a finger in our direction as they mock and scoff at our love.

Happy Holidays!

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Your thoughts

Ouch.. this was painful to read.

I "liked" how this guy claims to have done research on it, and thus knows that gays are all crazy sex-addicted sluts :\

Paul Cameron much?

Posted by: Kamikapse | Dec 26, 2008 10:13:52 AM

It's called creating a straw man argument. And when you do that, you control the argument from beginning to end, especially the outcome.

It is obvious that this is what that young man is doing.

Posted by: a. mcewen | Dec 26, 2008 10:13:53 AM

Just proves the old adage, that free advice is usually worth what you pay for it. But, in this case, we should ask for a refund of the number of minutes that we spent reading his drek.

Posted by: Dick Mills | Dec 26, 2008 11:31:08 AM

That was...verbal diarrhea. It didn't make sense, he doesn't have half his points right - gays do get denied jobs, gays have been the victim of arson (as a hate crime).
and seems to think we want people to like us, the gay community is not drowning in sex and sexual innuendo(Ellen and Rachel Maddow seem to keep their clothes on for the camera most of the time).

He seems to not understand the gay community, celebrities, government, the issues the gay community faces, or simple human emotions. His whole rant is all stereotype after sterotype after misunderstood point. Gah, nightmare!

Posted by: Jason D | Dec 26, 2008 1:46:07 PM

Here’s a tip, Pat. If you don’t want to “appear” gay on-line, you may want to tone down the DRA-MA!
This was my favorite part:

“I did some research...

I noticed that everything in the Rainbow Community (from selling shoes to booze, toes to nose, hat to cat, shirt to skirt, jacket to racket, ball to mall, food to lewd) is ultra drenched in the SELLING OF SEX.”

Posted by: Emproph | Dec 26, 2008 2:54:06 PM

Oh, yeah, he's got it ALL figured out, doesn't he?

Just like his rambling, almost incoherent attempt at an analogy about his choice of partner not requiring the "approval" of his parents or anyone else, so we shouldn't worry about such acceptance, either.

Of course, nobody's voting on taking away his rights to marry that person just because they don't agree with his choice of partners, are they?

Kinda' invalidates the argument, huh?

Posted by: JWSwift | Dec 26, 2008 4:24:00 PM

Some things are so stupid, they're actually painful to read. The seemingly random use of capitol letters doesn't help. Neither does condescending tone of the whole thing.
That wasn't a straw man, it was an army of them.

Posted by: Bill S | Dec 26, 2008 5:16:46 PM

I stopped halfway through. I really don't want a migraine tonight.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 26, 2008 6:25:44 PM

How much stupid was packed into it?
To pick one example, he complains that gays use sex to sell everything. Didn't Campbell's soup come under fire for a thoroughly innocuous ad that appeared in "The Advocate" depicting a lesbian couple and their child?

Posted by: Bill S | Dec 26, 2008 10:30:26 PM

Hmmm that's quite upsetting to read, but no more so than having christmas dinner with my family, who more or less share his point of view.

I think its a mistake to ignore his points out of hand since it is a worthwhile insight into the 'other' point of view. If we don't address the misunderstandings, prejudices, illogic and opinions he has shared then we will forever be speaking to our own audiences only. We need to break though the divide to win this argument.

The 'tag-team' tactic is an excellent point. It was always the wrong tactic.

The perception of all pervading sexual culture needs to be countered by some simple example of two teens sitting on a bus holding hands. If they are boy/girl people smile, if they're same sex, people hurl abuse or worse. Its not sexual if its straight but its confrontingly sexual if its gay.

The 'strident' comment is the same thing Obama worked against through his campaign: no matter what was thrown at him he must never show frustration or anger - because that is like an angry uppity black man of all (prejudice) white peoples' nightmares. It sucks but we have to take that on board as a tactic.

One of the things that the yes on 8 campaign did very well was create ads with stories that people could relate to in their own lives about the way the issue might affect them. We should do the same. Little short films telling stories of vilification, hatred, prejudice, being sacked, spat on, killed.... for being gay.

Most importantly though is addressing the idea of choice. We all need to come out(again) with the story of when we realised we were different - so that straight people can start to understand that it isn't a choice any more than their first attractions were a choice.

Posted by: gregok | Dec 27, 2008 8:00:48 AM

He's right. Gays are absolutely never discriminated against in jobs or housing. Oh wait, they are! And they're never harassed by law enforcement for being gay...except that we ARE! Hell, I could tell stories about my own experiences for twice being pulled over for driving while gay (that's a DWG).

And of course, heterosexual culture is never drenched in sex. Ever. Except for massive hit movies like "SEX And The City." Or TV shows. Or commercials. Or music videos. Or...

This man obviously had a lot of time on his hands. I'm guessing his internal censor drank himself to death.

Posted by: Johnny M | Dec 27, 2008 8:00:53 AM

GregK: As one who hasn't been invited to his biological family Xmas in years (at least not as an out gay man with a partner), I 100% agree that he gives insight into the way lots of people thing. I always look for the learning opportunities, and that is my takeaway here. However, I'd argue that we are already doing many of the things you suggest. For example, I would say:

-We are using non-sexualized imagery -- other than the ads that are to a large degree out of my control, you will never see me use a shirtless guy unless to make a comedic point. The same can be said for most of our national groups.

-Most people who speak publicly on LGBT issues are using measured, confident responses rather than strident rage. Due to the personal nature of the subject matter, sometimes emotions inform the response and anger organically creeps in. But we are hardly the "militants" that people still want us to seem.

-As for the yes on 8 ads: Well I think No on 8 certainly tried to show the "movable middle" how they could relate marriage equality to their own lives. Unfortunately, that came to mean hiding the actual gay people. But I would agree that more and bigger anti-hate campaigns should air, and I have certainly seen several powerful ones. I think the primary problem there is securing financing/broadcast time/ etc.

So yea, my major problem with his letter (if looked at objectively) is that he's using extremes to paint us as a monolith, asking us to "defend" this one certain kind of group that he has branded "The Rainbow Community." From my experience as one who deals with all facets of the LGBT movement, his is nowhere close to an accurate portrait. Now, like you said, we have to figure out how to deconstruct this portrait for those who subscribe to it. And yes, coming out is KEY!

Posted by: G-A-Y | Dec 27, 2008 8:17:36 AM

the CAPS LOCK compels you to obey...

Posted by: Uncle Mike | Dec 28, 2008 12:10:52 AM


Posted by: chris | Dec 28, 2008 12:10:52 AM

Well, obviously this guy hasn't heard of the fagbug or the countless encounters with police officers because a person is displaying a rainbow sticker on their vehicle. Obviously they haven't read a paper in a while and found out that violence against LGBT people is soaring in the name of "GOD" and obviously, he hasn't seen the recent reports where doctors are now allowed to refuse treatment on "moral grounds".

That being said, I don't think the LGBT Equality struggle is the same as the African American movement in many respects, it's more like that of the Jewish people - who were less visible socially and still suffer in many parts of the world. As to the relationship, their are certain legal precedents established with those past struggles that are certainly relevant (i.e. Loving v. Virginia). He may also forget that the Christian Identity Movement declared Blacks as non-christians and felt they were all doomed to hell and "less" than the White "real" Christians.

There are so many things this person obviously does not know...

I find mustard repugnant, the thought of someone "CHOOSING" to eat mustard disgusts me. Therefore, if I were to vote whether or not people should be allowed to eat mustard, would I therefore vote that they should not? No, because some people like mustard and they should be allowed to eat it... but I will still refuse to eat mustard, touch mustard or wash a dish which has mustard on it (yes, my aversion is that extreme and like those with a significant aversion to LGBT people, I should probably get therapy for it).

Posted by: jaysays | Dec 28, 2008 9:26:26 AM

I just don't get how someone who is so 'mind boggled by 2 guys making out' can spend so much time & energy - MUCH OF IT IN CAPS - for the simple reason to help(?) our community.

What a swell guy! Let's help him & his imaginary friend get their prayers in school shall we? After all - he's gone 2 so much trouble!

Posted by: malechi | Dec 28, 2008 7:38:08 PM

I will admit that the majority of America - the majority of gays for that matter - are unaware of the discrimination and violence that so many still face.

We, as a monolithic community, has resoundingly failed to raise this vital sort of awareness within or without our community.

Posted by: Dave | Dec 29, 2008 2:29:16 PM

Uh-oh.... watch out. This brainiac is very toxic. He's a fundy who may work for 'Serpentwise Films' in Chicago, IL. Tried calling but the phone is disconnected.

Unbelievable. Please, Mr. Williams, don't tell us there is no similarity between blacks, women and gays. While they do not match together as concrete as you argue, the essence of "inferiority" pervades --- therefore there is a valid crucial similarity. I agree with many others on this site; and I have nothing else to add.
When marriage equality occurs, I will be very satisfied that justice has arrived.

Posted by: Truthseeker | Dec 29, 2008 4:46:45 PM

Ow! Teh stupid! It burnnnns!

I tend to avoid things that have lots of paragraphs with all caps, and I see I'm right in my ways.

In any case, the wondrous and brilliant Bill S has composed a most thorough slam down thingy of this Mr. L. Pat Williams and it has been lovingly recorded at World O Crap!

Enjoy the snarky goodness here:

Posted by: MaryC | Jan 6, 2009 9:40:21 PM

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