Good As You

God forbid that people have opposing points of opinion, right?

**Now Introducing** --> The second most overused word in the LGBT vocabulary - "Bigot"... used to describe heterosexuals who do not share 100% of the views of the LGBT community and gay doctrine. You people are sad.

Really, really.

Sad.

"That's how I was raised" is a cop-out. You're an adult now-you're free to think for yourself.

Wayne says: "God forbid that people have opposing points of opinion, right?"

Right. Which is why we are expressing our opposing point of view. The one that says gay and lesbian couples are as deserving of civil freedom/parity under the law as their heterosexual counterparts. Surely if you support all opposing views, Waybe, then you have no problem with us expressing ours.

Oh, and Wayne: NOBODY MENTIONED THE WORD "BIGOT"! And the idea that we said would ultimately lose in society is not even this particular contestant, but the biased mindset in general. That is what we want to see fall out of favor -- not anyone person. The goal of this site is always for those who oppose us to hopefully learn and grow, not just go away.

I know you're new around here, but this site NEVER calls people "bigots," always focusing on the message rather than the person (the bigotry opposed to the "bigot"). So it is grossly unfair for you attack someone for a word/accusation that wasn't used/made.

My grandma said, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion even when they're wrong." Going along with that is the idea if you don't agree with someone, you say something. I was at a party when someone said something that I considered racist, and I said something. Since I felt I was on the right side, it would have been wrong not to say something. I didn't call the person a bigot although he clearly thought I was thinking that. Standing up for yourself sometimes makes people think that you think they are bigots only when you just think they're wrong. I can't help but wonder if the person feels that you think they're bigots, because they have a guilty conscience.

Wayne, my grandma at a lot of those little bits of wisdom. This one might be for you, "Remember there is a God. Also remember that you're not him." She also said to always wear clean underwear. That may or may not be advice that you need.

The disappointment on Perez Hilton's face says it all.

Wayne,
Here's the deal. People are allowed to have opposing opinions. Opinions are greats. People with opposing ideas and opinions are what make America the wonderful place it is to live and work. But here's the catch, opinions are not immunity from being told you are wrong. A person, say the president of Iran, can make it his opinion that the Holocaust never happened. As a human being, it is within this person's rights to have just such an opinion. However, that opinion is wrong. Not matter what he might think or how much he might believe it, the Holocaust did happen. Similarly, people who make it their opinion that certain Americans do not deserve the same rights as everyone else are able to have that opinion. This opinion is wrong, but anyone who wishes to have it are welcome to it. Not all opinions are created equal. Sad, but true.

I don't watch pageants, never have, but I'm a little upset on a couple fronts here.

First, have they asked political questions before? It seems a bit politically loaded at best. But I'm not aware of the normal questions.

Second, I think people are getting upset a little too quickly on both sides here. It's her right to say her beliefs, just as it is our right to say how stupid we think that view is. Her opinion is just that, an opinion. it's not truth, and if you look at people's comments online, way to many people on the conservative side are taking the OPINION that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry and making that into truth. There is a difference. As far as I've seen no one is saying she shouldn't have the right to say what she said, just that it is offensive to us.

Honestly I'm way more upset at the conservatives than I am at the LGBT crowd, I just think Perez handled it rather poorly at first with his blog post, but he has apologized.

Wayne,I will use the word you so dislike and add one,you and Miss California are bigots and hicks, but that is just my sad opinion.

Piper: Well for what it's worth, this site is not at all supportive of the way Perez has handled himself:

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2009/04/video-hey-perez-youre-really-not-helping-here-buddy.html

The word "bigot" has been used a number of times by the LGBT community with respect to Miss America's response. So I'm still not 1) understanding the legitimacy or relevance of Hilton's question in this pageant and 2) Miss California has EVERY right to her core values. And that's part of the problem with the gay community. What exactly are the "core values" of the gay community - aside from getting laid by a few hundred different partners every year, where to go clubbing for the night... I mean, honestly - that is how the rest of the world views this lifestyle. And the fact that the community is in denial and gets offended just solidifies the stigma associated with gay men. A friend of mine was showing me the m4m personals on Craigslist the other day. It was a joke! It's a hookup site. You go to the m4w or w4m personals, all clothes, people looking for a friendship or relationship. Do you think for one minute that society doesn't look down on people acting like this? It's not even a matter of personal freedom. It's called a total lack of and disregard of self respect. How about this - how about the gay community cleaning up its act... perhaps if "da bois" could keep their junk to themselves, or at least one person - the negative stigma associated with the gay community would fade considerably. I can feel the anger even as I type this from people reading... I can hear, "how dare this asshole be 'judgemental' - it's a persons own business if they want multiple partners"... wrong folks. If you're a slut - you're going to have to live with the negative image. I know, I know... you say "I don't care what people think"... if that was really true, why get so angry when it's mentioned?

As I said, unlike Miss America, I support gay civil unions and rights. After all, It's not my soul that I'm condemning. What DOES affect me is the gay doctrine that claims that it only wants marriage rights. We know the agenda and there is no cover up. If it is written in the books that homosexuality will stay out of schools, which it should be, I think we could find some common ground. For example I read that a family in No. Cal just filed a lawsuit against their kids school district when their 2nd grade son came home informing his parents about homosexuality being discussed. That's unacceptable and will be stopped. That's your life, we have a right to ours and kids will NOT be involved in this sort of lifestyle - that's up to a parent to discuss.

Bill S wrote that, "That's how I was raised" is a cop-out. You're an adult now-you're free to think for yourself. Miss California DID speak on her own behalf, and is entitled to have her own opinion.

Mike in the Tundra says, "Remember there is a God. Also remember that you're not him". I know this well. I am not the judge or jury, only a Christian. You see Mike, God's Word is very clear. You can't use a cop out like this just because God's word doesn't mold to your lifestyle - it doesn't work that way. Christians follow the word of God. And if you or anybody else needed my help, I would gladly offer the shirt off my back. I don't hate anybody... I have friends that are gay, and very dear to me. BUT - it's the duty of any Christian to adhere to the Word of God. That's what a relationship with God is all about. Nobody comes before Him. To think any other way is a false religion.

Patrick - I believe that everybody (not just here in America) should have equal rights. You're totally missing my point. My argument isn't whether or not gay marriage shouldn't be legal. Any person in this country should have the right to marry whoever they wish. What I am saying from my standpoint is that from a Christian point of view, that this lifestyle is immoral in the eyes of God and that a majority of Americans are not ready for this sort of idea. Gay men are less than 5% of the population of this counrty. Reverse the roles - how would you feel if you were in the 95% and this was being forced on you?

Gay men focus so much on "image", but in the wrong way. What is projected to the rest of us is a really nasty way of life... sleeping around, drinking, drugs, apathy... again, aside from the above, what are the "core values" of the gay community - "equality" is a given... but what else.

"The word 'bigot' has been used a number of times by the LGBT community with respect to Miss America's response"

But Wayne, you were the first comment on here, when the only text was from the site itself. And in response to that initial text, you said, "you people are sad," and you did so on the basis of the use of the word "bigot." That is unfair considering that neither the word nor the tone that you have projected were AT ALL USED!

You seem to be asking every gay person to speak monolithically. Nobody in their right mind is going to do that. For me (and, by extension, this site), I am saying that her views were unfortunate, and I hope she (and everyone) will come around on the issue of marriage equality. Plus in a followup post, I'm also saying that Perez's subsequent replies have been completely beyond the pale:

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2009/04/video-hey-perez-youre-really-not-helping-here-buddy.html

Jeremy,

I was hoping for some feedback on your thoughts about how a majority in the gay community behave. I think there's a common theme that is being avoided - that the gay community is a clean, well organized and well behaved group. I think you and I know that that's not the gay community. Perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us why it is so important for so many gay men to sleep around - and why is this sort of behaviour accepted and tolerated in a community that want to be "equal". Based on the size of the gay community as a whole, if you were to superimpose the amount of how many sexual encounters gay men have with multiple partners on the heterosexual community - the numbers would be staggering. Tell me how this is excusable, acceptable and why isn't something done to give the community a dose of self respect.

Wayne
So all Christians are a well-behaved organized group? No one is claiming that all gay people are well-behaved, but to claim that they have to be before those who are can get acceptance is really insulting. I'm a Christian and I get angry at the ways other Christians act. But I quietly push my brothers and sisters in Christ to follow what they preach.

In another question? where is your data that supports your claim that

"if you were to superimpose the amount of how many sexual encounters gay men have with multiple partners on the heterosexual community - the numbers would be staggering."?

It seems like an assumption based on what the media portrays about gay people. If there is actual data please provide it.

Wayne,
First, I was not suggesting that I know how you feel on any particular issue. No where in my post did I say that you personally were in opposition to marriage equality or anything of the like. My point was in response to what you said about becoming upset about her opinion. What I was saying was that it is right to be angered and upset by an opinion when that opinion is wrong. Would you deem it wrong if she had stood on that stage and stated something racist or anti-semitic? After all, these would just be her opinion wouldn't they? What I am saying is that we need to get upset when someone uses a televised platform such as this pageant to speak out against equality and advocate discrimination.
Second, your argument about Americans not being ready is irrelevant at best. No one can say that Americans were ready for Brown v. Board of Education when that happened. Americans were not ready for Loving v. Virginia when that happened. The bible has been used to throughout history to deny Americans right including to justify slavery and keep women from voting. The question should not be are Americans ready for equality, the question should be is equality right.
Third, I'm not even sure what you mean by asking to pretend that I'm in the 95%. That supposes that everyone who is not gay is uncomfortable with gay marriage. Then to say that it is somehow being "forced" upon anyone? This might just stem from a misunderstanding that I would love to clear up here. If gay marriage becomes legal, it will NOT be mandatory. No one, including gays, HAVE to get married. It would be entirely a choice left up to individuals. So don't worry, Wayne, I'm not ready to marry either and would also be upset if I was being FORCED to. However, if you are suggesting that I should pretend like I'm part of a majority that is being forced to live in a society where people are treated as equals... well then let me let you in on a little secret. I don't need to pretend to pretend that I'm part of that majority because I'm already living in a reality that far worse. I'm a part of minority that is having the religious beliefs of a majority forced upon me.

As for your other points that I have a problem with, I think Jeremy, Piper and the others have answered them quite well. :)

Hey Guys,

Thanks for responding and giving me your honest feedback. Look, I thought you guys would be able to tell by now - but I am a "reformed" boi. I was a late bloomer, didn't come out to anyone until I was 28. I was slow to get into the scene, because I felt really out of place. I'm not a Dean Cain look alike and didn't adhere to the "sex is like a handshake" mentality. Now at the ripe old age of 36, I've drawn some conclusions with my experience(s) within the community. I've lived in Chicago, NY and San Diego - 3 of the biggest gay meccas and it's all the same. Ooh, the eye candy, the dime a dozen eye candy... but anything beyond a hook up is like trying to hit the Mega Millions. And being that I didn't agree with this sort of agenda, I was given the gay scout "judgemental badge". Sorry guys, you can't deny what I saw and you know is true. You might live in a city that's different - the places I've lived were all the same as I described above. To top off the fact that the gay community is screaming for "equality", and then you hear about people like David Parker of Lexington, Mass who was arrested in protest for the school indoctrinating homosexuality to elementary school kids. WTF folks??? Has the gay community stooped so low to render its behaviour so far below the belt like this??? I mean these are kids - 7 to 12 year old kids. This indoctrination has been adopted under the guise of "tolerance" and that is deplorable - Absolutely despicable - and the community has no reason whatsoever to force this on the parents, and more so, on the kids. See, you don't have to worry about your kids coming home and asking questions that are extremely sensitive and uncomfortable to discuss. And this is the problem right here that the mainstream has with the gay community. This attitude - this spoiled rotten brat attitude of, "if I don't get my way..." - its a total disgrace and people should be ashamed of themselves. I have no problem with equality - but not more than equality. A few things to ponder - you all realize that once "equality" is achieved, the "minority bar" will be removed. You can't be considered "equal" and a "minority" - it doesn't work that way. So no more favouritism, no more special interests... Second is that if this legislation is forced through, which it is in the process of - I predict that at least half of the Liberals on Cap Hill will be voted out in favour of a GOP candidate as a result of this legislation in 2010. It's already happening:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot

And when that happens - who will the gay community have to cry to or blame? Who do you think our legislators are going to listen to - 5% of the population, or the majority? Believe me, voters will remember this in 2010 - you can bet on that and the Liberal movement will be stalled. It's all so well deserved, too and I can't wait for the GOP to take back both houses in 2010. I didn't like Bush, but I sure as hell don't appreciate the free for all that's going on right now - and either do millions of other Americans.

Like I said, I gave up on this lifestyle because the community gave up on me. I wish I could have been a good looking twink, but had no deciding in that. It's really sad that a community that professes to be so supportive of each other, but in all reality is only supportive if you held the look (I couldn't), and agree with the "gay doctrine" (I didn't). So much for "equality" from within a group against one of their brothers.

Wayne,

In response to your statement:

"Perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us why it is so important for so many gay men to sleep around - and why is this sort of behaviour accepted and tolerated in a community that want to be "equal"."

Is the granting of equal civil rights to a given group contingent upon how many sexual partners the members of this group tend to have? Is there a quota of X number of partners per capita per year, where going over-limit results in rights reduction?

Mariya,

Thanks for eluding my question. You know, its truly amazing in the gay community regarding its behaviour, "mum's the word" is the most popular response. Denial holds people back, you do realize that. Nobody wants to "fess up" to what really does go on, in spite of the fact that everybody here knows EXACTLY how "the game" works in this community. I will give you that "sleeping around" is a personal freedom up to a certain point. If a person is spreading disease, it becomes a public issue, which should be punishable by law. Again, the question should be easy to answer - how many people does ONE person have to sleep with to find "the right one". Our bodies all work on the same principle, so I'm not understanding how people are trying making their behaviour acceptable or honourable. Sorry, it's vulgar and repulsive. There is nothing wrong with people living a life with moral character. People without a sense of morality are sluts - period - and there IS everything wrong with that sort of life.