Good As You

I am so sick of these Christian groups lying all the time. It's unfortunate that their followers just blindly believe everything they're fed.

IFI isn't the only folks using the whole Carrie Prejean as way of saying the Hate Crime bill will infringe on freedom of speech & religion and like you said there will be a record of their side's willingness to lie - which is nothing new for these people fear mongering is what this people do to raise money for their organizations.

But what I find more frighten (and annoying) is that people buy it hook, line and sinker. Read any blog or comment section dealing with this bill or any equality measure and you see people basically repeating the words these organization spew on a daily basis.

Hate Crimes legislation does not criminalize any activity. It also does not decriminalize anything that currently is illegal. Prejean's comments, inarticulate as they were, did not violate any law. And as such, would not be impacted in any way by adding LGBTs to hate crimes legislation.

Most of the time, the more accomplished among the lying liars are much more careful in their lie construction. For example, they like to conflate hate crimes legislation with the lie that it will "protect pedophiles". And in that lie, at least they have some wiggle room. Because, if called on that lie, they could say that, "what I meant was that it could be used to protect kid-fucking priests from the angry mobs that might want to string them up."

So, they construct the lie so that they could cover their lying asses. But they are really hoping that the ignorant hordes take away from the overt lie, the more covert lie that an illegal activity (pedophilia) would somehow become legal if hate crimes legislation includes LGBTs.

That is absolutely false, and not in any way justifiable. But it is also the perfect lie that they can instill without actually saying it. And the hordes do come away with exactly that construction, and exactly as it was planned. They know the hordes are gullible morons, and that they can be played, and they play them like cheap fiddles.

In both cases, it's a lie that they are construing. The difference is that the Prejean lie has no wiggle room in it. There is no other possible pseudo truthiness that they could hide behind. That is what I love about the fact that these "brilliant" operatives in their camp spout off these gems. They are incapable of comprehending how to form their lies so that they are ambiguous enough to provide themselves cover. And are also perfectly willing to repeat their obvious lies, unaware that they are undermining their bigoted cause.

IFI: "Another very disturbing part of the bill is that it could also protect pedophiles -- as a special class of people."

Yes, and if it passes, the police will come and round up all Christians and kill them. And their children will all be turned over to homosexuals to be molested. And Godzilla will rise from the sea to destroy Tokyo.

It's sickening what they will say. They don't even remotely begin to care if it's actually true.

JH, did they take down the Prejean poster? I can only find a, "Wanted.. Bible Thunpin' Christians Posers" poster there now.

Dick: It's at the link that reads "Download this half-sheet flyer"

There is another element of hate crimes and why this bill needs passing. Known racist groups with a history of inciting and committing violence against minorities including including religious minorities ought to receive legal protection and recourse by limiting internet and internet provider access to the perpetrators of hate propaganda. There is legal precedence for this in the recent conviction in the United Kingdom of two individuals who were utilizing the internet to publish anti-Jewish hate speech. These two individuals will be sentenced to jail. Removing from the web sites that incite racial bigotry can no longer be tolerated in our modern society. This is not an issue of infringing individual's Freedom of Speech, but rather reducing exposure of fringe hate groups for the safety and security of society as a whole, and historically discriminated minorities in particular.

John Q Public, you are stating a precedent in the UK and acting as if the same could hold true in the US. That is absolutely false. In the UK, hate speech is illegal. In the US, hate speech is protected by the Bill of Rights, and as such cannot illegal.

Of course, there is a point where hate speech could become incitement to violence or conspiracy to commit violent crimes. Those cases are very difficult to prosecute, and rarely are successful. But this bill doesn't make it any easier to prove the conspiracy.

Fundamentalist Chri$tians seem to be some of the most truth-challenged people on the planet. They don't care if what they say is the truth--they care if people are terrified enough of "teh gays" to give money/support to their fundie nonsense. Of course no one is going to jail for saying they don't approve of homosexuality or marriage equality, but hey, "Christians will be hunted down and jailed (or killed) if a hate crimes bill is passed and signed into law!" will definitely bring in support/money from the fundie wingnuts out there.

I personally would like hate speech outlawed in this country but it's not likely to happen...too many sheeple seem to think it ought to be protected and so it is....price of living in a (relatively) free country, I suppose.